Pacific Western University - AACSB

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by carlosb, Jun 24, 2005.

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  1. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Interesting how PWU proudly mentions its membership in the AACSB.

    http://www.pwu-ca.edu/pages/home.asp


    Wonder how many confuse membership with accredited by?

    At least one person at the Northcentral U discussion board did!

    Just my opinion
     
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And my opinion is that such organizations--AACSB, USDLA, etc.--should deny institutional membership to schools not accredited by a recognized agency (or foreign equivalent). They're own reputations are at stake, not to mention the obvious misleading nature of it all in examples like the one above.

    Here it is:

    PWU is a member of the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB) International (http:www.aacsb.edu).

    AACSB is listed with the Counsel of Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) and was established in 1916.

    ("Counsel." Sheesh! :rolleyes: )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2005
  3. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    At the AACSB Web site:

    http://www.aacsb.edu/General/InstLists.asp?lid=1

    PWU is listed as an "Educational Member Institution"

    You can even link to the PWU Web site from this page.

    Guess if the "Gold Standard" Business Accreditation group says PWU is good enough to be a Educational Member Institution it must be so! :D

    Just my opinion
     
  4. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Contrast the above to the ACBSP membership requirements:

    http://www.acbsp.org/index.php?mo=st&op=ld&sid=s1_027join&stpg=7

    Emphasis mine
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2005
  5. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    Here is no doubt that Pacific Western is trying to trick people into thinking they are AACSB accredited. I am surprised that AACSB allows them to be a member. I must agree with Carlos that ACBSP's membership rules are clearer cut. I honestly think ACBSP's emphasis is better for most B-school's because it focuses on teaching, rather than research (most B-school grads aren't interested in research), but AACSB has the big name institution's and so everyone wants to be accredited by the same body as Harvard and Wharton. One thing I do notice is that most accredited AACSB accredited institutions in the US are State subsidized (tax dollars hard at work). It occurs to me that private institutions do not have (or want to fork over the money involved to become AACSB accredited as opposed to ACBSP or IACBE). I do find it interesting that ACBSP is absolutely fine with an institution getting AACSB or IACBE and carrying dual accreditation.

    Sorry-just realized I went off on a rant
    now back to what I was going to post before.

    Rules for AACSB membership (taken from AACSB member application)

    Current accreditation by and authorized regional accreditation association (institutions outside the USA may include recognition and/or accreditation by a government decree as in the award of “university status”, or demonstrate approval of its academic programs through membership in or recognition by one or more professional or government organization within the applicable region or country)
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Carlos:

    Two very fine posts. Thanks for pointing out this distinction! The one time I'd like the AACSB to be snooty and they're not. Not even close.
     
  7. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    So I guess that California recognition is considered "government organization within the applicable region". Not quite the standards I read it to mean.
     
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Does membership required before the school can apply for accreditation?

    I know that majority of Professional Accreditation agencies require
    first that the school be RA.

    Is this the case with this agency or CA State approved school can apply for accreditation and initially has to become a member.

    learner
     
  9. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    Rules for AACSB accreditation (taken from AACSB rules taken from Eligibility procedures and Accreditation)

    "P.1.a A School seeking accreditation by AACSB-The International Association for management Education should have appropriate governmental authorization to grant degrees".

    P.1.b:"The School normally should be a part of an institution accredited by an institutional accrediting body or authorized by the appropriate governmental jurisdiction."

    -It appears to me the answer is no..DETC accreditation could be considered. Again as I stated in an earlier thread (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19475)
    I'm not so sure it would happen because AACSB prides themselves on being the"premier accrediting agency for bachelor’s, master’s and doctoral degree programs in business administration and accounting". So in otherwords I have a feeling that some of the members may not be too happy with the idea, particularly the smaller institutions who try to use AACSB as a selling point. The Harvard's and Wharton's of the world have the least to lose(because they really don't need AACSB, like AACSB needs them, at least in my opinion).
     
  10. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Seems to me they do meet the requirements otherwise why be listed with all the other Member Schools?

    Look at:

    http://www.aacsb.edu/General/InstLists.asp?lid=1

    On the same list as Harvard, Stanford, and the other big boys. What a wonderful way for PWU to market themselves! Cost only $1750 to become an education member!

    http://www.aacsb.edu/members/duesschedule.asp

    "P.1.a A School seeking accreditation by AACSB-The International Association for management Education should have appropriate governmental authorization to grant degrees".

    PWU is California State Approved. Meets the governmental requirement.

    P.1.b:"The School normally should be a part of an institution accredited by an institutional accrediting body or authorized by the appropriate governmental jurisdiction."

    PWU is California State Approved. Meets the governmental requirement.

    Just my opinion
     
  11. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    If we examine this even closer notice the loopholes available:

    "P.1.a A School seeking accreditation by AACSB-The International Association for management Education should have appropriate governmental authorization to grant degrees".

    Should, not must.

    P.1.b:"The School normally should be a part of an institution accredited by an institutional accrediting body or authorized by the appropriate governmental jurisdiction."

    Normally, not must.

    Should and normally appear to allow for exceptions vs the ACBSP's "If located in the United States, the institution must be regionally accredited."

    Any comments from our lawyers out there?

    Just my opinion
     
  12. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    I believe you are right Carlos, but I also believe that if what you are implying does happen then the value of AACSB (whether it is a perceived value or not is another debate) will diminish its importance and prestige in the B-school world.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2005
  13. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    http://www.csdvietnam.com/english/whatnew.htm


     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    But this kind of thing practiced by many well respected organizations.

    For example AACRAO has membership.
    Many credential evaluation agencies use this membership as
    seal of approval. ( fake ones misuse this membership).

    In case of PWU MBA that is CA State approved ( not accredited )
    And this membership as stated earlier is promoted as accreditation,
    In my view its a deception, and misrepresentation.

    But this is not reflecting on AACSB accreditation for persons who know the deferense between membership and accreditation.

    Sadly many institutions around the world reduced membership requirement standards in order to generate needed funds.
    then there is a track to some real recognition or accreditation in this case.

    IIE UK of wich I'm member used to be that if one became corporate member he would have to take all the interviews and sent all the paperwork including the prove of education etc.
    Upon becoming a member he will become CEng.
    Today its just a payment and you are a member no CEng title do.
    Now as a member you are eligible to apply for CEng of ECUK and this is including examinations and alot of very demanding processis.

    I like it when CA State approval get a little recognition, wile not accreditation there is some level of oversite. Better than WI and couple of other states.

    Learner
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2005
  15. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    What I was taking about wasn't actually membership, but accrediation of institutions like PWU. In otherwords that if California approved schools and DETC schools are welcomed into accrediation for AACSB then the value of AACSB accrediation(academically speaking ) will suffer.

    I do agree that PWU is misrepresenting it's membership. If we look at Carlos' last post we see that PWU is trying very hard to look accrediated and if you do not read the quote carefully it could easly be confused.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think that DETC MBA programs got better with the years so maybe they can have a chance on earning this valuble and prestige accreditation. Even if initially AACSB may suffer.

    I been posting about education system in Russia and over there
    for example State Licensed real universities not bogus can apply
    for Professional Accreditation of their programs.

    I know an Academy of Space Sciense in Moscow that is state Licensed and Accredited by Russian Space Agency.

    I know a nursing school in Novosebirsk that is properly licensed and accredited by Ministry of Health.

    I know in US APA, ABET, AMA only accredit programs from RA universities.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2005
  17. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Mostly, you haven't been posting about the Russian educational system.
    You've been posting about IUFS.:rolleyes:
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Maybe I got caried with this outfit with my curiosity to the degree that people began to suspevt that I'm involved and trying to promote them.

    So no more

    I don't come here to fight with you or Gregg, Jack etc.

    And UJ visit the other chanel here and look for how many posts about them I posted there.

    The only reason I was posting here because other people bring other unaccredited enteties here, I had no Idea of the amount of haterige toward them and likes some people have here.

    Any way I stand by my coment that in Russia Licensed Universities can get recognized Professional Accreditation that is recognized by Russian Ministry of Education.

    Thats all.


    Learner
     
  19. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Even the IACBE requires RA!

    International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education

    http://www.iacbe.org/

    1. Institutional Membership

    Colleges and universities (postsecondary education) shall be accorded membership in the categories outlined below:

    * In the United States any regionally accredited four-year postsecondary education institution that grants degrees in business or business-related education may apply for institutional membership.
    * At the discretion of the IACBE Board of Directors, an international degree-granting institution may be granted institutional membership after undergoing a preliminary review by the IACBE Board of Commissioners.

    Looks like only the AACSB allows unaccredited schools to be "Educational Member Institutions." :D
     
  20. Rivers

    Rivers New Member

    Re: Even the IACBE requires RA!

    It does appear that way. Although IACBE requiring RA does not surprise me, because it has long been known that IACBE is somewhat of an off shoot of ACBSP(although ACBSP is recognized by the US DOE and IACBE is not. It should also be mentioned that AACSB is also recognized by the US DOE). Although Carlos it makes me wonder what AACSB accrediation/membership will look like in the future and that will determine what it will mean in the future.
     

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