Pace of online doctoral degree offerings...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by thomas_jefferson, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    You stated that 75% of those admitted to all doctoral programs don't graduate. I said it was probably more like 90% for RA online schools. Neither of us mentioned specific schools. I didn't mention specific schools for reasons that I wish to remain private. Do you have any specific schools in mind?
  2. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I believe the low graduation rate is attributed to the low admissions standards rather than a conspiracy theory to commit fraud. You would see how these graduation rates would go up if schools start asking for GMATs and preliminary research proposals. The problem is that it is not in the interest of the online schools to make it hard to get admission as this would reduce the number of students and income.
  3. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I still think it's fine to let everyone give it a try; low admission standards do not bother me. However, schools with low standards should be very upfront about the low graduation rates. NCU is a good example of that. They will let almost anyone into their doctorate programs as long as they have OK grades and a credit card, but the one thing they did do was warn me that it was going to be difficult to get through and state that many do not make it. No matter what your opinion of NCU, you have to admire that honesty.

    Liberty, where I'm now going, required a score of 400 on the MAT and letters of recommendation, they did not require a preliminary research proposal though. That's sort of middle ground as far as admissions requirements go. I wonder what their graduation rate is? I'll bet it's quite high.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2010
  4. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Why don't you ask them?
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Yes, I think I will. It would be interesting to know.
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    1. Who warned you that NCU's doctoral program was difficult to get through? One of the professors? An admissions counselor? Etc?

    2. Did they actually tell you that "many do not make it"? :eek:

    Just curious.
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    It is highly unlikely that any university (B&M or online) would disclose the attrition rate of their doctoral program. I've asked at several institutions -- and not one would provide an answer. Nay, not one.

    If individual B&M professors are asked, then they tend to give general answers, like "anywhere from 50 to 70% of those who enter [all] doctoral programs never finish."
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    When I called the admission counselor told me that it is difficult and not everyone that starts the program finishes it. It would be a lot of work and many fail out.
  9. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Hello Dave,

    Yes, I do have some specific school in mind.

    In our former discussion of this topic, I made the mistake of referencing several writers and websites that were citing a figure of “up to 75%.” If you recall, I then went back and checked those sources, found that none of them had any data to back up their claims, and then began citing the only authoritative study to data on the subject. I willingly admit that my 75% figure was based on non-authoritative sources without any data to back it up and was willing to revise my figure when faced with better data.

    The Council of Graduate Schools collected 10 years of data from 29 research universities and found that the 10 year doctoral completion rate averaged 56% (however, there was some variation between disciplines). This is the only longitudinal study of doctoral completion of which I am aware. If you know of any others, I would be very interested.

    An interesting part of the CoGS study was how the completion rate changed by number of years in the program. At 3 years, on 4.5% of doctoral students had finished. At four years, it was 10.5% (which is close to your figure). At 5 years, 1t jumped to 22.5%; 6 years-36.1%; 7 years-45.5%; 8 years-50.9%; 9 years- 54.6%; 10 years-56.6%. They did not collect data past ten years.

    So, it is most correct to state that after 10 years of doctoral study, a little more than half of all doctoral students complete their degrees. Engineering students tend to graduate at higher rates, while humanities students graduate at somewhat lower rates.

    According to this data, you could state that, on average, only about 10% of doctoral students complete their doctorate within four years, while I could state that, on average, about 57% of doctoral students complete their degrees within 10 years. Both of us would be right.

    However, if I understand your point of view, it is that only 10% of doctoral students in for-profit DL programs ever receive their degree and that the programs that enroll them know this and actively recruit a large number of students with no intention of provide infrastructure, courses, faculty and dissertation advisors for up to 90% these students. Please correct me if I am misrepresenting your position. I would be in complete agreement with you that an institution that functions this way would be engaging in fraud.

    The number of RA for-profit DL doctorate programs is limited to a few players: Phoenix, Capella, Walden, Northcentral, TUI, Colorado Technical, Jones International, and Argosy (are there any others?). Keiser’s PhD program is brand new and Strayer, American Intercontinental, Kaplan and DeVry/Keller do not offer DL doctorates. Again, if I understand your position correctly, then these would be the specific schools that would be engaging in the practices that you describe and would, in fact, be guilty of fraud. Am I correct or mistaken and do you have any evidence that these institutions have a 90% doctoral drop out rate?
  10. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    It was the initial "enrollment counselor" which is really just a salesperson. She said it was difficult and that many people drop out. I was quite impressed and that speech actually had the opposite effect on me and made me want to enroll. I appreciate honesty.
  11. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I agree, however, when I was looking at Capella, the enrollment counselor (salesperson) was willing to give me a general estimate of the percentage. At that time, she said the dropout rate was 50 - 60%. She was hesitant, but she did give me the info.
  12. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Yes, getting this information is a lot like pulling teeth. That statistic is really akin to an institutional failure rate, even though people drop out for reasons that are not directly related to the university (e.g. job, family & health issues).
  13. tomball

    tomball New Member

    My pick for 2011
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    But go through these guys: TiasNimbas Business School

    A British degree (University of Bradford)
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    Strong practical approach: for experienced managers with an MBA for equivalent post-graduate degree
    DBA with British degree at TiasNimbas


    DBABNDNMD New Member

    JIU DBA Pace

    Jones International has not graduated a DBA class yet. The Alpha cohort group will graduate sometime in February, or March of 2011. We are all anxiously waiting for the first DBA graduates to complete the program.

    JIU's DBA pace is very intense. Each eight week term is two classes, one core class and one "mentor" class that is basically equivalent to a lab. Homework is due on Thursday, and Friday of each week, with peer review feedback due by Saturday for core classes. Some weeks two assignments are due, and some weeks there are three assignments.

    The mentor class assignments are due every other week (generally, depending on the professor). There are generally two assignments due every other week. There is also a mandatory peer review requirement for mentor class assignments.

    Sometimes we receive a week between the start and end of classes. Sometimes there is literally no pause, with the follow up class starting within days of the previous term.


  15. commserver

    commserver New Member

    I was an adjunct until very recently. Due to the competition for adjuncts with terminal degrees I started exploring getting a terminal degree. I work in IT and going to brick and mortar school wasn't practical. I just applied to Dakota State University Doctor of Science program in Information Systems. I hope to get the degree and be able to adjunct again.
  16. commserver

    commserver New Member

    i was until recently adjunct. I am trying to get new adjunct position but I am running into situations where schools either state must have terminal degree and there are already many candidates with terminal degrees. I have sent in my application for the Dakota State University Doctor of Science in Information Systems program. I hope to be able to teach again.
  17. commserver

    commserver New Member

    I was adjunct. You just showing the bias against aduncts.
  18. commserver

    commserver New Member

    DSU is a public school and has online component, like many of non-profits. Is there a problem with going to online school? there seems to be. I want to go online school because of my work schedule.
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Me is sort understand maybe wat u say. Do u kno wat mean i? :blackeye:

    So neways, you might able to degree work hard it. :smashfreakB:

    Luck good!!! :slomo:
  20. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Picking on commserver you be doing at? Nice not be at doing. :smile:

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