Out-of-state students shouldn't pay more than undocumented

The lawsuit against the University of North Texas argues out-of-state American citizens shouldn’t pay more than undocumented Texans. A federal judge agreed.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/11/unt-tuition-lawsuit/

Thoughts?

 

So it seems that they have a few choices…. Raise tuition for everyone to make up the difference, or charge undocumented the same as out of state?

 

The undocumented students should be charged as International students; the reality, they are International students.

 

Not really. They're residents of the state where they live. They might be undocumented but they live and receive services in that state. They pay taxes there. That's the argument behind charging out-of-state students more, because they haven't contributed to the tax base in that state. Undocumented individuals also get counted in the census.

The specific provision the judge ruled on was a line in the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIIRIRA) that someone "who does not legally reside in the United States should not be eligible for a postsecondary education benefit granted on the basis of where someone lives unless United States citizens qualify for the same benefit"

I don't think this actually applies, because US citizens do qualify for in-state tuition as long as they live in state, like the undocumented students do. The law doesn't provide a privileged position to US citizens but one on equal footing with US citizens in the same position. We'll see how it does on appeal.

Additionally, there's this:

"Olivas also said TPPF lawyers did not adequately demonstrate how out-of-state students are harmed by the law, given that any U.S. citizen can qualify for in-state tuition if after living in Texas for a year before enrolling in college, while an undocumented student must live in Texas for three years before qualifying for in-state tuition."

 

Go to a private school and you do not have to worry about in-state and out-of-state tuition costs.

For real though, if you attend a public school out-of-state it should be expected to pay a higher cost since your, or your parents, tax dollars have not gone to that specific state.

 

As a lifelong Texas resident, I hope this gets overturned. The logic is lacking. Undocumented immigrants pay the same taxes as other Texas residents. Our taxes don't subsidize out-of-state tuition because those kids' families weren't paying taxes here.

 

Sure they did. Imagine working and paying taxes and not being able to take advantage of a single service those tax dollars support. That's the reality for many children of undocumented immigrants.

There's a guy who works at my mother's church. He's in his late 50's. Was brought to the US when he was 3. No documents. Been working on the books for as long as he has been able. Has taxes withheld every paycheck. Files taxes every year. Will not be allowed to collect social security despite paying into it for decades. Cannot take advantage of unemployment, food stamps or anything else.

So please tell me why his children should be charged the "international" rate?

Of course, his children wouldn't. They're US citizens by virtue of being born here. However I'm sure you get my point. Many undocumented immigrants are in the same boat. They are paying taxes and the only thing they are getting back for those taxes is the knowledge that at any time ICE might kick in their door and send them back to a country they don't remember where they speak a language they might only have an elementary grasp of. All because they played by the rules and put themselves on the radar by paying taxes in the first place.

 

I never said anything about undocumented individuals. I was more or less responding to the fact that folks in the US who live in Oklahoma but want to go to college in California should expect to pay a higher tuition cost since they are not contributing taxes to the state of California.

I avoid all talk that could be deemed political discussion so my response had nothing to do with undocumented individuals.

 

Isn't part of the problem that they're... undocumented? So someone could, theoretically, come from Columbia or Canada or wherever tomorrow, claim to be an undocumented immigrant, and get in-state tuition? At that point, schools might as well not have tiered tuition at all, which I doubt most would be willing to give up.

 

No, because the program requires them to provide proof of residency in Texas for 3 years (longer than the 1 year that US citizens need to), and they may also need to provide proof of graduation from a Texas high school.

 

The problem with that, as already mentioned in other threads, is that "needs" is something difficult to quantify and and many of those who ought to qualify are unable to prove it.

 

Well, this seems to be the mainstream now, isn't it? They wear "deplorable" as a badge of honor; I think one major party can change their slogan to "GOP: Inhumane and Un-American" and barely lose votes. As long as they keep "owning the Libs".

 

Interesting equal protection question. The 14th Amendment says in its equal protection clause, "No State shall ...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Note that it says "person" not "citizen" or "national" or "lawful alien". So can "person" include undocumented immigrants? Well, yes, it can but then again equal protection analysis is technically complex. Discrimination by State governments IS lawful so long as there is an adequate public policy basis for it. The analysis shifts according to the nature of the classification of "persons" and the nature of the discrimination applied.

A few years ago, the Great State of Texas announced that it wouldn't issue birth certificates to babies born inside the State unless one or both parents could demonstrate their lawful presence in the country. I don't know what the result of the inevitable litigation was but it should have been stricken immediately by the District Court which I don't think it was. The State essentially discriminated against U.S. citizen children based upon their parents' status. I cannot imagine how such a clear violation of equal protection could survive constitutional scrutiny.

 

Ah. Texas cut and run. They settled. https://www.texastribune.org/2016/07/25/texas-agrees-to-resolve-birth-certificate-case/ Someone had an attack of good sense.

 

Plyler v. Doe is an example of where the U.S. Supreme Court DID say that undocumented children are "persons" for the purpose of public schooling. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/457/202/

 

I'm pleased that the courts consider children of undocumented immigrants to be people. Over the last 10 years or so it seems that the GOP seldom misses a chance to try to rile up their base by discriminating against minorities, immigrants, blacks with voting restrictions, LGBTQ for marriage, sports, bathrooms, etc.

 

I'm not so sure it's always been the GOP so much as it has always, always been Texas. That State seems to be forever engineering new and ever more devious ways to hate on the non-white, non-Fundamentalist parts of their population.

N.B. I am a New Mexican (by choice) and am therefore prone to be less than fair when talking about the Lone Star State.

 

And that's just too d*mned bad!