Oregon starts labelling "diploma mills"

You say that a lot, but comment anyway.

I guess 25 years of working with adult learners, researching this field extensively for decades, having an active and progressive presence in it for many years, working with its most prominent expert, taking a Ph.D. in this field, and working in it full-time doesn't add up to much.

Peddling a self-supervised "dissertation" around, finding diploma mills and unrecognized schools to award fake degrees, flaming people anywhere possible, and posting multiple and unsubstantiated statements (and refusing to back them up) makes you an expert in this field. Other than that, what exactly have you done?

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.


Now, I think that he understand your point Dr. Douglas.

You forget something Dr. Douglas. You are other expert in the field.

PhD Pacific Western University (Criminal Justice)
MA Caribbean University (Criminal Justice)
BA American University of Puerto Rico (Criminal Justice)

 

Actually, I'm pretty far down the list. I'd give a nod to John, Steve, Gus, three guys named Bill, and many others before I'd get to me.

 

RC,
I've got a long way to go to catch up with your involvement with unaccredited schools and you have a long way to go to catch up with my 34 years of continual employment as an DL educationalist.
I've also just read a piece where you stated that you would not again refer to Knightsbridge as a 'fake' school. This seems to me to clearly indicate that much of the time you cannot recall what you have written. But I do know that you are well renowned to "Run with the hare and hunt with the hounds", just like the rest of 'the gang'. (which now totals eight)
Read some of the posts about yourself at Online-College - particularly those about your lack of understanding about Knightsbridge University, not to mention your totally obnoxious attitude to anyone who dare question your 'pearls of wisdom'.
In respect of your further obnoxious comments above, can you please tell me what you mean by 'self-supervised dissertation'?
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)

 

Hello friends, sorry about my English.

As you know, our friend Alans, classified Newport University that “meets the requirements of the California Committee of Bar Examiners.” a Mill http://www.newport.edu/

Moreover, classified Pacific Coast University a Mill? An institution that offer also J.D. and “was founded in 1927, before the California State Bar itself was formed” http://www.pculaw.com/history.php

So, Alans is saying that all the Lawyers and Judges from these institutions have a worthless degree and career????

My friend alans, be careful with these classifications to these schools, you are in “Hot Waters” Remembers, this people have legal J.D.

In addition, this people work in the Court of Justice. And maybe can change the classification to D.L.

D.L. = Defamation Lawsuit

People, you think that alans can say that in a Court of Justice and won??????

PhD Pacific Western University (Criminal Justice)
MA Caribbean University (Criminal Justice)
BA American University of Puerto Rico (Criminal Justice)
Certificate University College of Criminal Justice
Certificate Universidad Metropolitana (Paralegal Investigator)

 

Re: One Taz Payer's Approval

 

This has been an amusing thread. A few observations from someone who belongs to no "gang"...

I am one of the few who actually posseses a copy of Rich Douglas' dissertation, which I received from Rich himself. I am using some of his research for a presentation at a professional conference in the fall. It is 175 pages, not 150 (not that it matters much). I have advised theses and dissertations for several years and can state that the quality of Rich's work is comparable to dissertations at other RA universities.

Not having read fnhayes' dissertation, I obviously cannot comment on it. I can say that the length of a dissertation is irrelevant and is not directly related to its quality. I have read some studies that were long on words, but short on method and quality. The type of study performed (e.g. experimental, ethnographic, historical, etc.) will influence how much documentation is needed. Qualitative research designs typically require more supporting documentation than quantitative studies.

At a major research university in the west (that has awarded over 1,500 dissertations) I found one that was barely 100 pages (a controlled experimental study in Physics) and one that was over 800 pages (a historical study of a college in Eastern Arizona). Both authors currently possess a PhD from this institution.

I frequent Degreeinfo because I have found it to be a good source for up-to-date information on distance learning--which is important for me since I teach instructional technology and distance learning at the university level. I have visited Collegehints and online-college-info on various occassions and have been disappointed. There appears to be little in the area of useful information on distance learning on those forums and a lot of wasted space about how terrible John Bear and Rich Douglas are. John's and Rich's critics have not introduced any new information that is not already available from John's own books and John's and Rich's posts on Degreeinfo.

Outside of the exchange of a few e-mail messages, I am not acquainted with either Dr. John Bear or Dr. Rich Douglas. However, I have read their work and have well over 15 years experience in the field of instructional technology, so I do possess some tools to assess quality and usefulness and can attest to the good work performed by these men.

As for the Oregon ODA list of schools, I think that it is a worthy project and one that is needed. There are bugs, to be sure, but competent feedback given to the ODA will help to improve it.

Anthony Piña
Faculty, Instructional Technology
California State University, San Bernardino

Faculty, Distance Learning
La Sierra University

 

I thought that it was obvious, I'm surprised that you even seem to deny it. Isn't it true that you authored your "dissertation" without supervision and then submitted it for review after it was done?

 

You yourself have said that you wrote your own dissertation, then shopped it to Trinity, then Knightsbridge. This is utterly unacceptable in legitimate higher education, but quite routine at those "schools."

That you participate in the tripe at Online-College tells much. That you would refer to it as a source of useful opinion is, well, stupid.

Many people have questioned me on this board. Many have corrected me. But you're not one of them. You're just a rude idiot who cannot support anything he says. For example....

You claim to have purchased my dissertation (this time). I've asked you where you did so (since UMI doesn't have it for sale). You haven't answered that. I, right here and now, am once again calling you a liar. Where did you purchase it? You didn't.

I'm "obnoxious" to you because you're such a vociferous clown and I stand up to you. Ascribing that opinion to others doesn't give your viewpoint any more gravitas. It just shows even more how empty your statements are.

Again, where did you buy the dissertation, since it isn't for sale anywhere? Or is that just another lie?

 

As usual RC you are wrong on all counts and I'm certainly not going to tell you where I purchased a copy of your dissertation.
By the way, many people at CollegeHints are still awaiting your dissertation.
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)

 

still waiting

Hi Dr. A,

I think you're just having some sport here, getting everybody's goat and jacking up their blood pressures.

Let me ask you a question. Ever see "The Watermelon Man" on Captain Kangaroo?

There, that was my question, easy to answer, yes or no, binary choice, no value judgements attached to it.

G

 

I thought so.

 

I think that fnhayes' many statements that are obviously false reflect negatively on the possibility that his statements that haven't been verified are true, e.g., his claim that he's a teacher.

 

Yeah, 34 years as a DL instructor. That would take him back to 1970. Highly doubtful from anyone. A lie from him.

 

Um, how long has the University of London been doing DL, again?

Neil Hayes has said, "the Open Polytechnic of NZ (where I was employed for 24 years) offers an excellent distance education course, entitled 'wetlands'. The Polytechnic, which offers an array of degrees through distance education, can be contacted through their Website - www.topnz.ac.nz" (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6806) That should be easy enough to verify.

I don't think one should accuse anyone of being a liar, unless one is confident of being able to defend oneself in a libel suit.

And, of course, Neil is quite correct about the people who took Rich up on his offer to send his dissertation, and are still waiting for it. They include me.

 

Police raises an interesting (to me) issue.

If one earns an ODA condemned but Calbar qualifying J.D. and thereby becomes a California lawyer, he would be eligible to take the Bar in Oregon after a few years's active practice in California.

Now, to apply to every Bar for admission, you have to disclose the source of your J.D. Can't leave it blank; that's not "full disclosure". I am not sure about Oregon, but you NEED that J.D. to qualify here in New Mexico on the basis of practice experience.

Sooo...do they issue you a cease and desist letter for being honest in your application to the Bar??

 

YES!!

I just checked! In Oregon, you need to be a "graduate of a law school in the United States" earning a J.D. degree in order to qualify for the Oregon Bar on the basis of practice experience in another state (as opposed to having a J.D. from an ABA school.)

Police is right when he says that these unaccredited correspondence Bar qualifying J.D. degrees are not "worthless".

However, they are much much less useful than an ABA degree would be.

I should also point out from the statistics that only four Calbar qualifying D/L programs seem to have graduates routinely passing the Bar, year after year:

Oakbrook
Taft
NWCalU
Concord

I certainly wouldn't claim that the other programs are mills or worthless, but I'd probably choose from one of these if I were in the market.

 

Any law school? As I understand it, a loophole in Mississippi law allows 100% DL schools to operate from that state with no state control. If a degree-mill set up shop in that state and simply sold law degrees in exchange for cash, would Oregon be legally bound to accept them?

Here's a legal question for you:

We are familiar with overlapping inconsistent laws. In some states, non-accredited schools can legally operate under one set of laws, but they don't qualify one for licensure according to a second set of laws. In California, the Education Code regulates degree granting schools but the Business and Professions Code sets requirements for regulated professions (including law).

Presumably, in these California-type cases the laws regarding licensure take precedence over the laws regarding school legality. But why is that, exactly?

Is it simply a matter of scope? Does the most specific regulation trump any more general regulations?

Or is it a matter of applying the most demanding regulations that are applicable in each particular case?

In the Oregon case, the first theory would seem to favor the statute that specifically addresses bar qualification.

The second theory would seem to favor the more stringent, albeit more general, statutes that govern the ODA.

 

More inane comments from 'THE KING of DEGREE MILLS'.
I joined the Technical Correspondence Institute (in Wellington, NZ) on the 9th September 1968 as an engineering tutor, and was the youngest Tutor ever employed by TCI at that time. Prior to that I had extensive industrial experience as an engineering designer and was a member of the Institution of Engineering Designers (now a Fellow) and a Registered Engineering Associate.
(In 1967 I had actually manufactured the first cartridge revolver ever to be approved by the NZ Police, I also represented New Zealand at target pistol shooting between 1970 and 1981)
I taught at TCI (now The Open Polytechnic of NZ) on campus until 1992, when I left to pursue a very successful career operating my own importing and direct distribution Company. Such activity has so far resulted in eight trips to Italy and five to Rome - and to that delightful pub, Trinity College. However, I continued as a TOPNZ Adjunct Tutor and I am still employed by TOPNZ; which actually equals 35 years.
On-campus I taught a wide range of engineering subjects, up to fifth year NZ Certificate level - equivalent to first year degree level.
In 1967 I commenced breeding waterfowl and became involved with the rare and endangered NZ Brown Teal in 1970. I have had a major involvement in the brown teal recovery programme since then and was the instigator behind two major government reviews of the brown teal recovery programme, one in 1994 and the other in 1999. The 1999 effort, which included national TV coverage, resulting in a complete turn-around for the programme, with trend counts in Northland, in February this year, showing the highest figure for brown teal in 15 years!
RC, if you weren't such a buffoon, you could have read some of
this in "Who's Who in NZ" or in my brown teal management manual. To expand your 'education' further you could visit - www.brownteal.com - where most of the information presented has been extracted from my manual.
Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)

 

See my previous question to you.

But if Oregon recognizes a California attorney on the basis of previous practice in California, need that attorney be "using" the law degree and must Oregon be recognizing it?

The reason I ask is because the CA B&P Code has a provision for students to qualify to take the California bar exam by formally apprentising in a law office or judge's chambers. While I'm not sure if any students have actually done that in recent years, provision still remains in California law for people to be admitted to the bar without any law degree at all.

If Oregon is willing to accept these attorneys (I'm not sure if they are), then when they recognize practicing California attorneys they aren't necessarily recognizing any degrees. The attorney aspirant may have used an unaccredited CA law degree for admission to the California bar, but now is using that California legal practice, however achieved, for admission in Oregon.