Oregon starts labelling "diploma mills"

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by [email protected], Mar 2, 2004.

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  1. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    I hope Henrik does sue. Legal discovery can be a beautiful thing.
     
  2. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Neil has in mind a New Gang of Six. Douglas, Sainz, Israel, Hampton, Huffman, galanga?
     
  3. fnhayes

    fnhayes New Member

    Only four of the six correct oxpecker. Keep trying - you can do better!
    Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)
     
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I see Hayes isn't willing to back up yet another hyperbolic statement (which I've refuted).

    With all of the inflated, unsupported statements he's made, along with the baseless flames in which he induldges, is there any reason to accept his (again, unsupported) statements about earning his doctorates from what are demonstrably fake schools?
     
  5. fnhayes

    fnhayes New Member

    RC,
    I'm no longer going to respond to your inane drivel.
    AED does it all for me.
    Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't inane drivel be things like claiming that the ODA spends millions of dollars to produce the two lists posted on their website and then refusing to address any basis for the assertion? No, I guess that wouldn't be inane drivel. It would more accurately be described as fabricated drivel, wouldn't it? Wouldn't inane drivel be more like your false assertions that Union bestowed Rich's Ph.D. in only 8 months? Maybe even a better example of your inane drivel is invoking the "gang of six" term while not referring to any of the original "gang of six" and not even being willing to define who you mean by the "gang of six"? Yes, I vote for the last example as the best example of inane drivel.

    P.S. I reserve the right to cease responding to your inane drivel at anytime of my own choosing but, obviously not yet.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Actually, you've never responded. That's the trouble with someone touting what is clearly a fake intellect.

    As for a.e.d., why am I not surprised that you align yourself with that activity? Nothing said there bothers me. But you're agreement with the behavior pleases me to no end. It reveals you for what you are.

    (Readers: "a.e.d." stands for the newsgroup "alt.education.distance. It used to be a valuable source of information about distance learning, but was essentially hijacked by a couple of people who hate the truth about diploma mills--sound familiar, Hayes? It was the genesis for this board. I seem to be its current focus. Posts range from direct quotes of things I posted years ago (much to do with MIGS), or, more simply, vulgar statements. Why Hayes thinks this stuff bothers me is anyone's idea, but it muddies only him--even above and beyond his two fake Ph.D. degrees.) :cool:
     
  8. fnhayes

    fnhayes New Member

    Bless you RC.
    Dr Anatidae (Knightsbridge)
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I would certainly hope that I would be mentioned in any "new" Gang of Six. :D

    Even though I haven't posted to a.e.d. in many years, I still get a mention now & then. My favorite was referring to me as "donut boy". :rolleyes:
     
  10. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Congratulations to CCU for making the "S"! :D

    I also enjoyed K-WU listed as "U".

    Now, all you ODA haters, you may discuss here as well as over at collegehide. :)
     
  12. Zengo

    Zengo member

    ODA List!!

    Not to take it all from ODA, which is doing good job.

    But I could not be silent when:


    *** MIGS is listed as "U" - reason
    Monterrey Institute for Graduate Studies. As of December, 2001, this entity is not authorized to operate in Texas or Florida, where it claims to operate. Oregon will not accept MIGS-related degrees until satisfactory evidence of its legal status in the U.S. and its degree-granting authority is obtained. Oregon does recognize degrees issued in Mexico by Centro de Estudias Universitarios of Nuevo Leon, Mexico.

    and

    Virginia Int'l Univ. as "U" - New school

    Why not list VIU as "none" until ODA proves something, or just hiding some information.

    And the LIBERIAN GANG AS MILLS BASED on the FACT that the government is corupted.

    I do not want to argue with anyone on this matter because, USA and many other countries are corupted. LOok at the last election in the USA. Do not open "Pandora's Box".

    But is in it that Dr. Bear was involved with MIGS and A.C. is his friend.
    And Dr. Douglas with VIU (I might be wrong) on this.


    And do not say it's new and so on. Any university less than 10 years should be considered new.

    Just my opinion

    Regards

    Zengo

    P.S. Do not flash your degrees from Excelsior, Regents and T.E.S.C. they are credit banks. R.A. or not still not good.
     
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Zengo:

    I taught for VIU for 3 years (part-time adjunct). I don't have anything to do with their listing, nor how they're listed. Alan Contreras and I do not agree regarding this subject, as I've written before.

    MIGS is a moot point, since it never awarded CEU's degrees.

    Thanks for sharing your opinion about the "Big 3."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2004
  14. Zengo

    Zengo member

    ODA

    Thank you Dr. Douglas.

    Tried to post twice but could not do so.

    Just a test.


    Regards

    Zengo
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Which is more correct?

    "The ODA list is fatally flawed"; or
    "The ODA list is flawed fatally"?

    Any grammarians out there??
     
  16. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I just glanced through the latest incarnation of the list and didn't find anything to complain about.

    I wasn't acquainted with most of the schools listed, but those that I recognized seemed to be classified appropriately.

    Frankly, I would have preferred that the ODA had kept their list simple, just listing schools that failed to meet the OR statutory requirements without trying to further subdivide them. Classifying schools just exposes the ODA to attack by those who disagree in particular cases.

    I realize that much of the earlier Degreeinfo criticism of the ODA was because they didn't subdivide the schools. But I believe that particular criticism was ill-conceived and I think that the ODA was mistaken to heed it.

    But I also think that it doesn't matter very much.
     
  17. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    I'm not an anal retentive obsessive compulsive. Perhaps someone else could help you.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A third option would seem more precise:

    The ODA list is flawed!

    Not fatally, for it does attempt to expose the problem, but flawed in the sense that the criteria for categorization appears to be subjective in some cases.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Marylanders are fine, but those New Yorkers are all crooked

    ODA does seem to be unreasonably sure of itself, and I see at least one case that I suspect is an example of an okay school being guilty by association.

    Specifically, I saw Ross University of St. Kitts on the list. Ross University has a medical school in Dominica and a veterinary school in St. Kitts. While I haven't been to the veterinary school, I do know that the medical school is real -- their students do in fact learn medicine go on to internships and residencies in the US and other first world countries where they successfully repair damaged people.

    Thus, I wonder if Berne's questionable claim of being Kittitian has made ODA assume that anything on St. Kitts must be suspect, and just decide for convenience to tar everything there with the same brush.

    Also, on their site, ODA says, "Does the host country have adequate academic oversight practices? Under Oregon law, ODA determines this on a case-by-case basis. Our list of unaccredited schools provides an idea of which countries have doubtful oversight."

    I don't suppose one of those countries is "United States"? I suppose I find comments like ODA's "doubtful oversight" obnoxious because I'm enthusiastic about giving people and their organizations the benefit of the doubt and thus dislike the intellectually lazy idea of "guilt by association" that ODA seems to embrace.

    -=Steve=-
     
  20. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Re: Marylanders are fine, but those New Yorkers are all crooked

    I disagree with Steve.

    I think the point here is that St. Kittsian accreditation appears to be unreliable. It certainly isn't clear that it is equivalent to US Department of Education recognized accreditation, which is the standard set by the Oregon statute.

    That doesn't mean that Ross is a mill or even that it's academically sub-standard. It does mean that it probably shouldn't be accepted automatically and without question.

    If Ross or its partisans finds the Oregon listing intolerable, there's a procedure for case-by-case approval of questioned schools. Domestically, Bob Jones and the (now discontinued) SCUPS psychology Ph.D. appear to have been approved in that manner. The OR listing page specifically addresses foreign schools that desire reclassification.

    http://www.osac.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2004

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