Ontario Bar Exams Cancelled & Reassessed Over Cheating Concern

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jonathan Whatley, Mar 6, 2022.

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  1. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    Law Society of Ontario cancels upcoming bar exams after content allegedly leaked to some candidates: More than 1,000 candidates were scheduled to write online examinations starting Tuesday. (Joshua Chong, The Toronto Star, March 5, 2022)
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I noticed that the Ontario bar exam is open-book and all multiple-choice questions. I thought that was odd; it sounds more like a no-degree career school exam format. I've done lots of those! Is it the same format in US jurisdictions?

    Some progress in the last 60 years anyway. When I started work (not law) in the early 1960s I met several articling students. They told me what they were paid (because I asked) - an average of about $50 a week - about half a semi-respectable salary, back then.

    I just looked up today's stats. In Ontario, the average for articling students is $45,000 yr. Around $900 a week. Considerable improvement. Good for them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2022
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That is interesting. Never would've thought so for a bar exam. However, it is a format that a number of degree-granting schools in the United States use but at most schools that do it it's course-dependent, so you may have open-book exams for one course but none for another course. In my experience, even an open-book exam can be challenging if it's written with that aim. I've had quite a few where--even though I scored a 100% or maybe a little lower-- it was rough trying to find the right answer, understand it, and apply it to the exam. One of the trickier ones I encountered was in a Medical Terminology course where there was more than one right answer but you had to pick the one that was most common to the issue in the question. It was a battle between finding, understanding, and racing the clock. Very exhilarating, and it helped solidify the knowledge.
     
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  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Canada requires articling. The US does not. In the US taking the bar exam and meeting the character requirements are all that is necessary. You can walk out of law school and into your own practice the next day. In Canada, again, articling required. You need to work for a licensed attorney or participate in an approved training program to allow you to be called to the bar. So the exam is one step of a multi step process that includes another element of experiential learning. In the US if you can graduate from law school and pass the written exam you can defend Ralph Macchio against bogus murder charges even if it takes you seven tries on that written exam and your only work experience is as a mechanic.
     
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  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sounds very appropriate. I think that's a battle that doctors and nurses are often called upon to engage in.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Neuhaus. Tell Ralph I'm on my way - as soon as I enrol, then graduate and write the exam for the seventh time! Sounds like there's hope for me, yet! I'm quitting this garage! :)

    America! Truly, the Land of Opportunity. Bye-bye, Frozen Wastes! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2022
  7. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    The two yoots will be very appreciative.

    (Even if one of those yoots is now 60 years old)
     
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  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Perfect. Still kids, compared to me! :) I'm certainly old enough to be their lawyer!
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The U.S. bar exam is closed book and is about half multiple choice and half written. There is a correlation between an entering class' median LSAT score and its first time passing percentage. In short, you're doomed before you make your first tuition payment!
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Seriously, going to law school with an LSAT score under 150 is a risky thing to do.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Seriously, if you're under 147-150, is any law school going to admit you? This article says it's not likely even a lower-tier law school will admit you below that level. 150 is only the goal, they say, for someone who is intent on getting admitted to ANY law school. Would you agree?

    https://examstrategist.com/lsat-percentiles/

    BTW - they say Barack Obama's LSAT score would work out to 170 under the present system. That's a pretty hot score!
     
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh yes. There are several such schools, a few of which possess ABA accreditation. Given that LSAT scores have prediction value for bar exam success, there are those who consider accepting such poorly qualified students as nothing else than financial exploitation. The ABA finally adopted a rule that a certain minimum percentage of every class must pass the bar exam on the first attempt. So these schools cranked up their already high tuition and use some of the money to subsidize better qualified students as much as 100% of costs. But they still admit students who shouldn't be paying any law school for an education they are unlikely to be able to use. This is how a degree from a bottom ranked school has a sticker price higher than Yale or Harvard. This is also why until recently the California Bar maintained a pretty strict first year law student exam requirement. They've relaxed it a bit now I see, allowing D/L schools to gain accreditation and exempt their students.
     
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  13. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    There was a great Quora answer I read (before I deleted my account so I don't have the link handy) from a lawyer who examined the data on LSAT and admissions. She showed that with a sub-150 LSAT you could get into a school - I think there were 3 or 4 on the list whose average LSAT score was in the high 140s - but that the graduates of those schools exited with very high debt and very few prospects. Many of them never pass the Bar and those that do tend to end up in low paying work that makes it difficult to pay off their loans. It was very compelling.
     
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  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Low bar pass rates have contributed to closure or loss of ABA accreditation in a few cases such as Thomas Jefferson and La Verne. Good in one way I suppose. California schools that lose ABA approval are at once welcomed into the ranks of CalBar accredited schools. To the ordinary California law student who never intends to leave, there's no practical regulatory difference. But tuition tends to drop by half for the same education.
     

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