Online JD Law Degree...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by shawn3500, Jun 12, 2012.

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  1. shawn3500

    shawn3500 New Member

    Is there any good online JD law programs that will help me pass the Bar exam in California?

    Thx.
     
  2. BlueMason

    BlueMason Audaces fortuna juvat

    Let me google that for you

    It's to help you use the google search engine and specifically to search this site as there are several threads on this topic already :)
     
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I think you'll find the curricula at all of them are nearly identical (except Oak Brook, which adds a strong Christian approach). The differences lie in the kinds of support received, both written, online, phone, etc. The "baby bar" and bar pass rates vary tremendously -- like from 0% to 70's. Whether this is because the more diligent students choose certain schools, or if certain schools train more diligent students, or some of each. Some of the most dreadful schools -- and I mean you, SOuthland, LaSalle, and Bernadean, among others -- still have some alumni practicing law in California today.
     
  4. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

    The State Bar of California maintains a list of Law Schools in California. Scroll or click through the menu down to "Unaccredited Law Schools in California." There are two sections for "online" or distance-delivered law schools: "Registered Unaccredited Correspondence Law Schools in California" and "Registered Unaccredited Distance Learning Law Schools in California."

    For either of them, after one year of study, pass the First Year Law Students' Examination, aka the "Baby Bar," a special hurdle almost all students at ABA and a preferred tier of California Bar-approved B&M law schools don't have to take. Then three more years and the Bar Examination.

    The Bar has Statistics from the Baby Bar and Bar. Scroll down in the file for each sitting and you can see statistics for each school.

    Be aware, though, just looking at the last two administrations listed for each:

    • A majority of attempters from all but one "correspondence" and "distance learning" class law school failed the October 2011 First Year Law Students' Examination. The one sad exception was California Midland School of Law, which had a grand total of one person attempt and pass for a rate of 100%. California Midland School of Law closed the same month.

    • A majority of attempters from all but one C and DL class law school failed the June 2011 First Year Law Students' Examination. The one exception was MD Kirk School of Law, which had 2 of 3 takers pass for a rate of about 67%. Now, all three of these takers were repeat takers who had failed before. Go back one administration further, and MD Kirk sent 12 takers in and only one came out with their card punched to continue their education towards eligibility to take the bar, for a failure rate in that sitting of about 92%.

    It's hard to tell, but the Baby Bar probably weeds out all but the hardiest minority of students who ever sign up for a C or DL law program.

    Even those students will eventually have to take the final Bar Exam:

    • A majority of attempters from every single C and DL class law school failed the July 2011 final Bar Exam.

    • A majority of attempters from every single C and DL class law school failed the February 2011 final Bar Exam. Relatively strong performances: From Taft, 5 out of 7 first-time attempters passed, though all 11 repeat attempters failed. From Oak Brook, 6 out of 12 first-time attempters passed, and 2 out of 7 repeat attempters passed.

    Be aware, too, that there are thousands of accounts of a glut of law school graduates even from traditional ABA-approved schools, reports of lawyers getting 30k a year administrative survival jobs, etc. Could you hang up a shingle and take clients? There is probably advertising for law firms in heavy rotation in every media in your city, and most people probably know or know of several lawyers and law firms already. How would you get in front of all of them and stand out to a market who needs and can afford a lawyer?

    You should understand how steep a hill this is that you're looking at.

    For just a chance at bar admission, are you ready to spend every free moment breathing in casebooks and hornbooks and churning out statements of the laws and precedents that a short story about an insurance policy or a corporate structure brings up?

    Are you ready to invest thousands of dollars on top of tuition, and hours more again, in Baby Bar and Bar review courses? If you're concerned about passing these exams, and from the aggregate statistics you should be, you'll want to look into third-party review courses on top of what you'd be getting from your C or DL law school itself, which is obviously nothing near assurance of passing either exam. Here's the first California Baby Bar review that comes up to a search. At first glance it seems promising. It cost thousands of dollars and involves writing sixty practice exams over 14 weeks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  5. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Why not just go for a paralegal certificate? Less cost, less time, same pay!
     
  6. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    I agree. With the economic and legal climate as it is, let the established law firm be the rainmaker instead of trying to hang out a shingle on your own. Why climb the mountain if you don't have to? Also the satisfaction rate from beginning attorneys is not that high.
     
  7. Paidagogos

    Paidagogos Member

    I am curious...how much do paralegal make typically? Just a ballpark figure will suffice?
     
  8. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    I only know one guy who is a paralegal in San Jose, and he makes $120K per year. I have no idea what the average is, but I'd bet its less than that cause he is in a VERY expensive part of California and he has been a paralegal for quite a long time. (13 years give or take)
     
  9. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    A paralegal WITH a bachelors degree can expect to earn between $40-$50k to start. A six figure salary isn't unheard of for someone practicing 10+years.
     
  10. Paidagogos

    Paidagogos Member

    Very interesting! I like doing research and I have been toying with the idea of perhaps getting a certificate or AA degree in paralegal work. This bad economy has me running down so many different avenues! hahaha. :biggrin:
     
  11. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Even paralegal work is hard to come by at this point. It is substantially easier if you hold a bachelors degree. There are tons of programs out there, no need to do an AA, if you have a BA/BS a simple certificate would suffice. I've always found the Duke University paralegal program(s) interesting but you can get the same education for half the price.
    Is legal work something you're actually interested in or just looking for a job?
     
  12. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    So you are saying any BA/BS and then a paralegal certificate beyond that?
     
  13. sube

    sube Member

    Yes, you can have the BA/BS in any major and then go for the paralegal certificate. Be sure it is ABA approved though. Not sure if there are any that are 100% online. I got mine many years ago at a well known B&M. But the market for paralegals (and the legal profession in general) isn't very good, so depending on where you live, you might have a hard time finding a job. Most firms want someone with years of experience.
     
  14. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    I'm sure a lot of attorneys are doing the work of paralegals to save on the expense of having one on staff.
     
  15. sube

    sube Member

    Depends on the size of the firm.
     
  16. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    Well yeah. I'd say its a wash with Big Law, they just bill out at the paralegal rate. But with the economic legal climate the way it is, small to even mid-size firms are trying to get as many billable hours at the attorney rate rather than the paralegal rate.
     
  17. AUTiger00

    AUTiger00 New Member

    Yes

    Duke's are available completely online. I believe Suffolk Univ in Boston offers theirs online as well.
     
  18. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Surprisingly, at least to me, the Suffolk requirements for admittance in to the program is 30 college credits, a BA/BS, or at least 2 years law experience attested to by a lawyer while the Duke program only requires a high school diploma.
     
  19. NorCal

    NorCal Active Member

    I wish the ABA would accredit an online law school program.
     
  20. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    A lot of people wish, myself included. However, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. The ABA has a great thing going. Why would they allow anyone to compete with their B&M law schools? Or have the B&M law schools compete against themselves with online programs. They will continue to keep a death grip on their accreditation until something monumental happens. When or if that ever occurs is anyones guess.
     

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