non-traditional phd degree

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by peter, Dec 14, 2003.

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  1. peter

    peter New Member

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    Occupation:
    psychotherapist
    Location:
    sonoma, california
    I have come across three universities that come close to what I am looking for in a degree: Flexibility, cost, and the third would be reputation. Does anyone know anything about these schools?

    American Pacific University
    Calamus International University
    International University of Professional Studies

    I have done a thread search and nothing comes up, but I may have missed something.

    New Member
    :)
     
  2. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

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    Unfortunately all three are what are commonly called degree mills.

    American Pacific University
    http://www.ampac.edu/university/other.shtml

    ACCREDITATION
    American Pacific University is accredited by the INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCHOOLS, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES, an international accreditation agency based in Antwerp, Belgium.
    AMERICAN PACIFIC UNIVERSITY IS NOT ACCREDITED BY (A RECOGNIZED) AN ACCREDITING AGENCY (OR ASSOCIATION) RECOGNIZED BY THE UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF EDUCATION.
    Note: In the United States, many licensing authorities require accredited degrees as the basis for eligibility for licensing. In some cases, accredited colleges may not accept for transfer courses and degrees completed at unaccredited colleges, and some employers may require an accredited degree as a basis for eligibility for employment.


    Calamus International University
    http://www.unicalamus.org/accred.htm

    …CIU is legally registered as Calamus International University Limited in the British West Indies. Such registration does not comprise accreditation or recognition by the British government. CIU is established according to the laws of its state of incorporation. CIU is a British West Indian (not a British) university, and is empowered by its company charter to award degrees.
    CIU is not a United States university so is not accredited by any agency recognised by the U.S. Commissioner of Education.


    International University of Professional Studies
    http://www.iups.edu/distancelearning.htm

    …International University of Professional Studies, is not accredited by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Secretary of Education. Note: In the United States, many licensing authorities require accredited degrees as the basis for eligibility for licensing. In some cases, accredited colleges may not accept for transfer, courses and degrees completed at unaccredited colleges, and some employers may require an accredited degree as a basis for eligibility for employment.

    Put simply, you would be better off printing a diploma from your computer. Interesting though is APU's The Doctor of Esoteric Studies degree. Close enough to that illusive Doctor of Useless Trivia to be interesting!

    Seriously what field are you looking for a degree in?
     
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    These are not universities, or are they recognized as such by any reputable agency or entity.
     
  4. peter

    peter New Member

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    Occupation:
    psychotherapist
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    wanna be unis and the non-trad. phD

    Thanks for much for the prompt and helpful response to my inquiry about:
    American Pacific
    Calamus International U.
    Internat. U. of Proff. Studies.

    These schools are listed in an article in The Australian (Sept. 02, 2002) compiled from research by the Higher Education Supplement. They divide schools into "degree mills" and 'Non-Traditional " of which the above is in the later category
    What is the difference?
    I have been reading Bears, Guide to Distance Learning, but is there a better resource?

    Re: my specific search. I want a valid doctorate, but it does not have to be accredited. That would be a nice bonus if the school meets other critera: Cost and Flexibility.

    I find many good schools in Australia for doing a research PhD
    which is what I want. So far they all seem too traditional
    and not flexible enough. That may be just how the catalog reads.
    Is it possible to find what I am looking for for under $10,000(USD)


    My area is psychology and theology.

    Warm Regards,

    PeterHC
    BGS (Ohio Univesity)
    MA (Pacific School of Religion)
    MDiv (Pacific School of Religion)
    Post MA cert. (John F. Kennedy U.)
    :confused:
     
  5. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

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    The institutions labelled "degree mills" in The Australian are those unambiguously known to be mills. The institutions labelled "non-traditional" are mostly degree mills, with possibly a few legitimate but unaccredited universities in the mix. The degree mills which make up the majority of the "non-traditional" list have not yet been unambiguously proven to be degree mills.
     
  6. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

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    Re: wanna be unis and the non-trad. phD

    Re: my specific search. I want a valid doctorate, but it does not have to be accredited. That would be a nice bonus if the school meets other critera: Cost and Flexibility.

    I find many good schools in Australia for doing a research PhD
    which is what I want. So far they all seem too traditional
    and not flexible enough. That may be just how the catalog reads.
    Is it possible to find what I am looking for for under $10,000(USD)


    My area is psychology and theology.

    Warm Regards,

    PeterHC
    BGS (Ohio Univesity)
    MA (Pacific School of Religion)
    MDiv (Pacific School of Religion)
    Post MA cert. (John F. Kennedy U.)

    ===

    Have you ruled out South Africa?
     
  7. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

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    Hi Peter

    Well I must admit I still some what unclear what you are looking for and what specific area of study you would center on.

    As far as the meeting of psychology and religon both Saybrook and Pacifica offer flexible study in that arena.

    http://www.saybrook.edu/
    http://www.pacifica.edu/

    Neither are what I consider cheap but are reputable and accredited.

    If cost is the first concern then a Aussie or SA degree would seem to be a great choice. My knowledge of overseas psychology degrees is zero. I don't think I would mix an overseas degree with an unaccredited one. You would be straining your legitimacy.

    As for unaccredited US degrees in psychology I am unfamiliar with any. They may well exist. I remember seeing many ads in the back of Psycology Today. It would be interesting to research and see if any of those are legitimate.

    In any event good luck and post any information you discover.
     
  8. peter

    peter New Member

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    Dear Dave-
    Yes, I am somewhat familiar with Saybrook and Pacifica. Both very good and reputable, but you are right, not cheap.

    I will continue to pursue options in South Africa, and have not ruled out Australia.

    Thanks,

    petercoster
     
  9. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman New Member

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    Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    I generally agree with this statement. Not meaning to nitpick but, there are some places in this country where printing your own diploma is a felony. If you happen to live in that area then it is probably better to just lie about having a degree that you didn't earn because that is only a misdemeanor. Anyway I agree with Dave that sending money to con-artists is not a good thing and should be avoided.

    P.S. The unaccredited schools chapters in Bears' Guide are also mostly degree mills. My view is that the Degree Mill chapter of Bears' Guide lists degree mills that have been clearly proven to be degree mills and therefore would not be able to file a frivilous lawsuit to simply hassle people for calling them a degree mill.
     
  10. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    Where, and on what basis?

    Thanks.
     
  11. Han

    Han New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    Are you serious?
     
  12. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    Yes. Perhaps it is intuitively obvious to you in which juridictions it is a felony to print a diploma but a misdemeanor to lie about having one, and in which jurisdictions some different standards apply. I was not born with this a priori knowledge. Perhaps you could enlighten me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2003
  13. Han

    Han New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    I didn't mean are you serious in knowing which juristiction (I do not know, but many here would), but would it matter?? What value does a print out of a degree hold? Does it matter if it is federal, state, local, it is illegal and disception... right?
     
  14. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    The point of the post to which I was responding was not whether the practice was illegal and deceptive, rather that in some jurisdictions, it is apparently far worse to actually print out a degree than to just lie about having one. (Specifically, a felony vs. a misdemeanor.) This is surprising to me. I was wondering what the legal basis was for distinguishing between the two, if this applied to things other than degrees, and where (at least some examples) of jurisdictions in which this is the case (assuming it is not universal throughout the U.S.)
     
  15. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    I'm not a lawyer and can't claim a technical knowledge of the law but ignorance never stopped me from posting before and so I don't see why it should in this case either. The first thing I thought about when I read the above scenario was that there's a difference between someone who counterfeits a bunch of $100.00 bills and someone who spends one of those bills, not really knowing that it's counterfeit. We've all read lots of stories of people who have "bought" their degrees thinking that they were actually being awarded a degree based on "life experience" or some other claptrap. I believe it's called plausible deniability and comes from the fact that it's really really hard to prove someones intent in a case like this. If the person spending the bogus $100.00 bill says, "Honest, I didn't know it was bogus!" it's very difficult to prove in court that he's lying. I'd be interested in reading a more informed opinion, especially if I'm wrong.
    Jack
     
  16. salami89

    salami89 New Member

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    I am like Peter and would like to know if some of these so called degree mills are still degree mills or are they taking measures to rectify the situation?
     
  17. Mike Albrecht

    Mike Albrecht New Member

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  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Active Member

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    I really don't understand why someone would go to ALL the trouble and vast amount of work required by a legitimate dissertation doctorate program but do it through a doubtful school.

    Unless, of course, one wants the degree without doing the work...
     
  19. Han

    Han New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: non-traditional phd degree

    Good point, for informational pursposes, it would be interesting to know.
     
  20. Han

    Han New Member

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    I think this depends on what the person wants to do with it. For some, AACSB is the only schools worth doing a doctorate, others RA, etc. , etc.

    I wouldn't argue "doubtful" schools come into play between AACSB and RA, but one might not hold as much value.

    I see accreditation much like other trades for applying to a school, it is only one item to consider.
     

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