Non-RA Ph.D. in Theology: Pro's and Con's ???

Re: Bill & North

Now, that cracked me up.

Thanks for the humour!

North

 

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ThM= MDiv plus one year advanced study
DMin=MDiv plus one year advanced study
Yes the latter is called "Dr". Therefore there can be no equivalency between the two! Sorry for my denseness.

 

Assuming that I am sensing sarcasm (my apologies if I should not be), comparing years of study is not an accurate comparison Bill. For example you can compare years of study after a masters degree and come to the conclusion that Touro's PhD in Health Sciences (36 or 40 credit hours) is not really a PhD. This would of course be nonsense. It is a regionally accredited PhD. Fewer credits than most who require 60. Nonetheless using your logic we can say:

ThM= 120 credits or 4 years of study past the B.A.
Phd (Touro) = 76 credits past the BA or 2 1/2 - 3 years of study

Following your logic we are to assume that the Touro degree is not really a PhD but yours is a PhD+.

Another example is that an M.Div is 3 years (90 credit hours) after a bachelors where most Masters are about one year (36 credit hours). That does not make an MDiv a doctorate or equivalent to a PhD merely because the number of years are the same:

eg MDiv= B.A. plus 3 years of study (90 credit hours)
PhD= B.A. plus three years of study (90 credit hours).

Using your logic, the M.Div is a PhD.

Finally, there is a fair amount of variation in number of credits for D.Min.'s. These range from 33 credit hours to 48 credit hours at Western in MI and a 60 credit hour D.Min. requiring a dissertation at a seminary in Alberta (cannot remember the name).

North

 

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North

Scout's honor in this thread I have not had one sarcastic intent!
Based on the Western description of these two programs I meant that they are equivalent in prerequisites and duration and rigor.

I wish to God I had kept my "mouth" SHUT as i have apparently aroused your ire without intent. I disagree with you but value your friendship more than the point. As far as sarcasm you should reread your SIGH post!

 

original question

The original question asks if one has a b, an m and pro. d. which are RA and working good, and then decideds to get a non-accredited, non-approved doctorate, what do we think?
I always have to ask the question why?
The RA masters and professional doctorate prove all you need to prove. They meet professional goals. They prove you can work independently.
A second non-ra non-state approved doctorate only demonstrates that you have money and time.
If you have a personal interest in a particular subject, write abook about it.
If you don't feel competent because it is a change of field, then take a course or two to develop a focus. Then develop your own study plan, and write the book.
I can't see how the non-ra degree is of any help. Certainly it is no help professionally.
All the best!

 

Don't be concerned, Bill.

1. You spoke regarding this issue because you were predestined to do so.

2. You had no choice in the matter.

3. Its not your fault. You could not resist the grace to speak.

 

Th.M./D.Min. Equivalency

The Th.M. and D.Min. are not, as North has noted, equivalent degrees. They are not equivalent in content, purpose, design or utility. They are not equivalent any more than the M.Div. and DRE are equivalent. One is a master's degree, the other a doctorate. Both have their place, both are substantive, both are marketable within their own parameters, and both are commendable.

Any person is to be commended for the time, investment, energy
and discipline in earning ANY legitimate degree!!!!!!!!

 

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Your're right Russell. And since it was an involuntary transgression rather than willful, I guess I retain my sanctification as defined by Wesley, "an instantaneous deliverance from all sin" (see" Wiley, Christian theology, vol II,467,468)! Thanks for your kind oases of humor!!!

 

You are correct that I got sarcastic as well. Es tut mir leid! I am not mired in ire or even truly upset I have enjoyed the debate.

I also value your friendship too. *I LUV YOU MAN* (don't remember which movie that quote came from).

I suppose at this point we shall just need to move on. In light of Russell's comment we can put our toys away and next time you can play with the DMin bull dozer and I will play with the ThM truck

North

 

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North

see my private apology just sent and here's my public one: Sorry!

Much respect, gratitude, and Christian affection

"as well?' No, shut up Bill, smack!!

 

While some within the Keswick movement interpreted Wesley's position on sanctification as "an instantaneous deliverance from all sin," an indepth study of Wesley's writings will reveal that he did not take this issue to the extreme as some of his followers have done. Just as one finds within the fold of Calvinism various positions, so is the Arminian camp. The latter just happens to burn its heretics slower, this gives them space to repent.

 

Ain't nobody gonna play with my D.Min. bull dozer!!!

 

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Perhaps you are right. Or perhaps ,as some,Wesley , hampered by the inadequacies of Arminius was just not that consistent or clear -as the logic of Calvin's system allowed that reformer to be. My quote was from one of the standard Wesleyan Arminian texts (nazarene). Point Loma, of course, is a Nazarene school and a year of Arminian Theology was required of all of us MA students in Theology even if our Calvinism had already revealed to us the error of our profs teachings!

 

Some are predestined to be right, Bill. I have chosen to be.

Seriously, I do enjoy our dialogue.

How is the UZ thesis developing?
Was chapter one easily approved? Revisions?
What about turn around time, are they prompt in responding?

 

It is merely an issue of semantics. Christian Perfection has been defined in numerous ways, and Wesleyanism like Calvinism can be taken to several extremes. One would need to exegete Wesley's personal interpretation of such words/phrases as:

1. Christian Perfection: Does Wesley take the position that this is a state in which one can live one's life, without the possibility of failure? Or is he speaking of a heart which is so in love with Christ, that one willing follows the Lord in all things?

2. Sin: In the context of perfection/sanctification is Wesley speaking of a lifestyle of continual sin, or single acts of sin?

 

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UZ thesis: um, er, well actually the Supervisor has not as yet seen it, sort of, like that It will be emailed today. I was supposing that it was predestined that he would accept it

dialogue enjoyment; I like it too! When I go too far then you say "Shut up ,Bill ".

 

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Russell: have you read Wesley's "Perfection" or not? this is your guy and you are asking me "is wesley speaking of"? If wesley says"in this world Christians CAN be saved from ALL sin", how is that semantically confusing?

Russell speaking of semantics look at your first paragraph. If one "follows the Lord in ALL things", then how could one sin?