National University of Medical Sciences

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Sep 29, 2017.

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  1. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    I was reading about Osteopathy (Wikipedia) and saw that in some countries Osteopathic Manipulation was separated from Osteopathic Medicine. The Osteopath manipulation sounded like Chiropractic.

    In any case, I came across this entity. Guy appears to have started schools in the US, Canada and Spain. Offers a doctorate in Osteopathy online (not medicine) and claims you can be registered in Canada, etc.

    Red flags are that it seems odd without mandatory clinicals AND I cannot figure out how the school is accredited.Get to know about National University of Medical Sciences

    Anyone heard of it?

    I have never heard of Osteopathic practitioners who are not Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine.
     
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  2. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    I cannot imagine you can set up shop in the US doing spinal manipulation with out being licensed. Even Massage Therapists are permitted.
     
  3. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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  4. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    Yikes. Interesting.
     
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  5. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    Wiki says non physician osteopathic manipulation is practiced in most provinces but not regulated in Canada (as of 2014). I find that odd since it seems a lot like Chiropractic.

    The article says it is practiced in the US but practitioners cannot call themselves DOs to avoid confusion. I have never met a practitioner and would find it odd that they would not be regulated due to risk and similarity to Chiropractic.
     
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Yes, ostheopaths can practice in Ontario, and are covered by some private benefits plans... but are not a registered profession.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    Right. Not regulated. So says a professional body, where I live: the Ontario Association of Osteopaths From their page, at Ontario Association of Osteopathic Manual Practitioners (OAO) Home Page - Ontario Association of Osteopathic Manual Practitioners (OAO)

    "The OAO Board of Directors approves, but does not accredit, educational institutions for the purpose of accepting individuals as members of the OAO. Currently, there are only two OAO board approved, Ontario-based educational institutions whose students and graduates are eligible to become student members and active, or affiliate, members, respectively, of the OAO – the Canadian College of Osteopathy in Toronto and the Canadian Academy of Osteopathy in Hamilton."

    The practice of (non-medical) manual osteopathy is not currently recognized as a regulated health profession (emphasis mine -J) under the Ontario Regulated Health Professions Act, 1991, or any other legislation. Regulated health care professions have a defined scope of practice under profession-specific Acts. There is no law that defines a scope of practice for osteopathy. However, many OAO members are regulated health care professionals, such as nurses, massage therapists, occupational therapists and physiotherapists, who have sought additional education and training in order to provide manual (non-medical) osteopathic assessment, care and treatment."

    Google is your friend, on this. I think the standard qualification is DOMP - Diploma, Osteopathic Manual Practitioner. (2500 hours. No diagnosing or prescribing meds.)

    Here's (below) where you can apply for the exam - and a list of approved schools. Don't see our man on this list. I read somewhere if you don't have a health care background, some schools have provisions to accept you providing you complete recommended courses in basic anatomy, physiology, pathology & med. terminology prior to admission.

    How To Apply - Canadian Manual Osteopathy Examining Board

    J.
     
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  8. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    Thanks Johann. National University of Medical Sciences is on the list. However, I notice he has a Canadian Branch that offers a diploma and clinical practice (noticed on Canadian Osteopathic site that their organization required 1000 supervised hours). So, perhaps the Canadian campus would work but I wonder about the Doctorate from the Spanish campus with optional clinicals.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Yes, National Academy of Osteopathy in Toronto appears to be this entity's sister school.

    Whether the doctorate will "work" depends on what you mean by "work". The profession is unregulated, so any training might suffice. I'm pretty sure one cannot use the title "Doctor" with it though, as it is limited by the Health Professions Act to Physicians, Dentists, Clinical Psychologists, and Chiropractors. Ironically, a podiatrist with a DPM can't be a "doctor" either, even though American DPM is quite rigorous, teaches evidence-based medicine, and they are routinely called "doctor" stateside.

    In short, this is a gray-area profession with a spectrum of legitimacy that is hard to pin down. Some people do practice it, and thrive, in the province.
     
  10. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    Thanks. It has been fascinating to learn about the field because I had no idea it existed as a stand alone. Apparently, some parts of the world have Osteopathic Manipulation as a field and other parts it is seeking to be recognized. I gather in the US no foreign DO degree is accepted because the US DO is unique. Basically, allopathic with OMT added. US DO can be used elsewhere as a medical degree.

    I am still not clear why Canada would allow unregulated Osteopathic Manipulation when it appears to be Chiropractic care (which I believe is regulated).

    Love this forum though (learn new things from an international perspective).
     
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  11. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    Forgot one thing. I noticed on one of his sites he did address the issue of use of doctor with a Provincial regulator and was told in one Province it had to be John Doe, DO (Spain) and in another it could be Dr. John Doe, DO. I think in the first case the regulator said you could also not have employees refer to you as 'Dr.'. May have been Ontario (which you mentioned).
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Interestingly, it seems that the National Academy of Osteopathy is not affiliated with Ontario Association of Osteopathic Manual Practitioners. The academy directs its graduates to a different organization, Ontario College of Osteopathic Rehabilitation Sciences. Neither of the two is a regulated body, of course. I kind of suspect that Dr. Pourgol (who has a legitimate DC degree, as well as DO, MBA, and PhD from his own school) has some role at Ontario College of Osteopathic Rehabilitation Sciences, if not outright owns it. Interestingly, Dr. Pourgol was forced to resign his membership in College of Chiropractors for using "Ostheopath" title (reserved for DO Physicians) and making misleading claims about the National Academy of Osteopathy (that it's program leads to licensure, when there's no such licensure in Ontario).

    My take is, yes, you can practice and get reimbursed (from private insurance plans) for Manual Osteopathy services in Ontario with a DOPM from this school. Especially if you're already some kind of a regulated professional, such as a RMT. Which probably tells very little about it's quality, because the practice is so lightly regulated. Dr. Pourgol's web of international entities looks at least a little fishy. Certainly distance-learning program with optional labs focused on manual therapy is... weird.
     
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  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    Here's an example of a business offering Manual Osteopathy services:
    https://osteoklinika.com/

    You may notice that one of it's employee is one Shirin Pourgol, BA, DOMP. She is both a graduate of the National Academy of Ostheopathy and sister of it's founder. Funny how this works.
     
  14. heirophant

    heirophant Member

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    It appears to me that a "manual osteopath" would fall under the category of 'alternative medical practitioner' here in California.

    They can't all themselves Osteopathic Physicians because the latter is a regulated profession that requires a state license, that requires among other things, a D.O. degree from an Osteopathic school with recognized accreditation. Manipulative osteopathy does resemble chiropractic, but these people couldn't call themselves Chiropractors since chiropractic is another regulated profession that requires a license.

    Some relevant laws are here.

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?division=2.&chapter=5.&lawCode=BPC&article=3.

    2053.5 sets out what alternative medical practitioners can't do, ranging from surgery through taking X-rays and prescribing drugs to setting fractures.

    2053.6 requires them to disclose to all patients that they are unlicensed, that the state does not regulate alternative medicine and the nature of the treatments that the practitioner provides. The practitioner is required to get written acknowledgement from the patient that they understand all this.

    2054 prohibits them from using the prefix 'Dr' or referring to themselves as 'doctors' or 'physicians'.
     
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  15. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    It is my impression as well.
    It's a mushy gray area of healthcare. This particular animal at least appears to stay in it's own lane and do not claim to cure cancer or practice actual medicine. These modalities can help with ailments and nuisances that kind of fall off the edge of allopathic therapies. I long had a slight knee pain that I sort of lived with; even if a doctor agreed to try to treat with, what, drugs? it didn't feel worth it. Recently I decided to use my benefits plan and let a Chiropractor treat it with electric acupuncture; to my great surprise, he fixed the problem. The same guy treats my wife's migraines (with Chiropractic adjustments), and it appears successful as well. Good option in a situation where you don't want to just keep popping Advil, yet it's not bad enough to order MRI yet. Of course, and it's important, this last example is Chiropractic, a licensed profession with substantial training requirements.

    It's a bit murkier with these too-entrepreneurial guys like Dr. Pourgol. All practitioners not covered by our glorious single payer plan need to hustle on some level, but this guy's intergalactic educational empire feels too much.
     
  16. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    I can see the DO being a little confusing in the US and Chiropractic Boards taking issue with the Osteopathic Manipulation.

    Getting my neck twisted by someone who took an Online program is not happening. Not even if they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    Indeed. Perhaps he should have a talk with Elon Musk about charter flights on the "BFR." :smile: Apologies for not seeing his school on the "list." It was plainly there.

    I'm not getting my neck twisted by anyone - except maybe my bookies, First National of Vinnie and Aldo, if I miss a vig payment. :shock:

    J.
     
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  18. Garp

    Garp New Member

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  19. mintaru

    mintaru Member

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    Location:
    Germany
    I do not know much about the school in your original question, but it seems this could also interest you:

    A country with both, osteopathic physicians and practitioners of non-physician osteopathic manipulation, is Germany. However, the degree Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine doesn't exist in Germany. Osteopathic medicine is offered as a further education for German physicians, generally leading to a diploma. That means the education of German osteopathic physicians is comparable to (but also somewhat different from) US Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine. By the way, the post-nominal letters D.O. do exist here, but it's the abbreviation for Diploma of Osteopathy. I should probably note the number of osteopathic physicians in Germany is quite low.

    The education of non-physician osteopaths is different. Only one university in Germany, Hochschule Fresenius, a private university of applied sciences, offers degrees (B.Sc. and M.Sc.) in osteopathy. (https://www.hs-fresenius.de/en/) All other schools of osteopathy in Germany lack university-status. Therefore these schools do not offer degrees, but diplomas. German non-physician osteopaths officially work under the so-called Heilpraktiker law. Heilpraktiker is a profession within the German health care system. It is possible to practice osteopathy as a Heilpraktiker, but osteopathy is not recogized as a stand-alone profession.
     
  20. Garp

    Garp New Member

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    That seems to be the case in several countries. Looks like Osteopathy got absorbed with the Osteopathic Medicine model. The founder was a medical doctor. Chiropractic broke away. They both seem to have their foundations very much in the spirit of the 1800s medical, metaphysical stuff (I think the Chiropractic founder had no medical background).

    I have never experienced Osteopathic Medicine but have tried Chiropractic and found it helpful. Not sure I know enough about the differences but find it interesting that non medical Osteopathic Manipulation is practiced in several countries but unregulated. Seems odd.

    This school has no .edu and kind of concerning that someone might mistake the DO for a US DO. If I saw correctly the US branch does not offer a DO (just PhD). The Spanish office offers the DO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2017

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