My degree was revoked, now what?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Imtrying, Oct 24, 2015.

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  1. Imtrying

    Imtrying New Member

    Here's my story. I successfully (4.0) completed two years at a community college. The last day of class they put an immobilization device on my car for unpaid parking tickets. (I never new about the tickets because they had the wrong address in the system). They demanded cash payment in full(no payment plan) or they would tow the car.(it was too late to contest tickets). While I was paying the debt someone removed the boot. I honestly don't know who did. I didn't because I am in a wheelchair.
    They decided after a disciplinary review to revoke my degree because I violated the student code of conduct by removing the boot. (I think it was to make an example to other students).
    I had already transferred to a competitive university. I know they too will rescind my admission because it was based on a transfer degree from the CC.

    My question is, when a degree is revoked, does it mean the units are revoked too? Will the two years and 60 credits be lost? Can the school refuse to issue a transcript for the credits(not the degree) forever?

    Will any colleges accept me with a revoked degree if I start over?

    One final word.

    I'll save the hypocritical dogooders the time and effort; punishment and consequence are part of life, but these schools are their own judge and jury in a kangaroo court. With the swipe of a pen, they are able to destroy a person's education/career forever without any possibility for redemption. I sympathize with the man who had his degree revoked by a Christian college because they found out later that he was a homosexual.
    (In Lexington Theological Seminary v. Vance). It could happen to anyone.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I'd suggest that you get a lawyer.
     
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I think it is essential that you seek legal advice, and the sooner the better. If money is an issue, there are legal aid societies . . . and many lawyers will give the first half hour for free, to determine if they can help. I've heard, over the years, from many readers who were successful in dealing with comparable situations. Once a school know that someone is going to fight back, they may well behave differently.

    Also: a local newspaper and/or radio/TV station could well be of help if they have a consumer reporter. In any event, they should see that there is a good story here.

    Further, since boots are not easily removable (especially by someone in a wheelchair), a lawyer (or consumer advocate) has a good chance of determining who removed it, and when.

    Good luck. Let us know what happens.
     
  4. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    If your CC transcripts were already transferred and formally accepted by the four-year university, then you are formally accepted: and you may continue pursuing a Bachelors degree.
     
  5. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    Lawyer up. And not just any attorney, but one that specializes in education law. Good luck.
     
  6. foobar

    foobar Member

    I strongly advise you to follow the advise of others here and hire a lawyer. That revoked degree is something you are going to have to explain (and not necessarily be believed) for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. This could be used against you in areas far outside of academia and would make asserting your innocence in any situation you may find yourself in the future more difficult to do. You're not going to be able to fix this ten years from now when it's getting in the way of a job, promotion, further education, or a run for public office.
     
  7. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Though this is true, you'd still be screwed if you decided to go on to graduate or professional studies down the road. They want transcripts for all schools attended. Your BA transcripts would show 60 transfer credits. And you'd be unable to produce those CC transcripts.

    Lawyer up. This is one of the few occasions where I believe you need to hire the sharkiest of sharks and sue until it hurts.

    While I'm very pro-not removing boots, I'm very anti schools revoking degrees for non-academic reasons.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    I don't know if the OP did what he/she is accused of. But by the information he/she provided, the preponderance of the evidence indicates he/she did. (His denial vs. having his case already adjudicated in a civil proceeding.) In my personal judgment, permanently revoking a degree over this matter is really severe. I would think an additional fine would have handled it. The OP needs a pathway to recover from this incident (and yes, I'm assuming he/she removed the boot--that could be dead wrong, but that's the way it's been judged), not a dead-end and a complete failure.

    Be careful with the lawyer route. Something like this could cost many thousands to litigate...with no assurances he/she will prevail. (And, again, even harder if the matter has already gone through some binding civil proceeding.) Legal costs could exceed the cost of earning those credits somewhere else. But it's probably worth an initial consultation.
     
  9. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    1) The burden of proof if a university judicial affair is significantly lower than in court. In court, you have to prove I removed the boot. At a university, you can generally settle for ""well, Neuhaus is the most likely person to have done it and he can't prove that he didn't."

    2) assuming all on-campus appeals have been exhausted, there is no good way to lose two years of academic achievement. Even if he goes to a new school, writes off the last two years and starts from scratch, he has virtually no chance of being able to continue on for graduate or professional studies with a degree revocation on his record (not to mention the inability to release transcripts for all attended programs). So yeah, thousands in litigation might not go anywhere. But lying down and saying "oh well" is going to cause great long term harm. And deciding to sue in five years when those problems manifest will likely be too late.

    3) as John Bear noted, there are resources for free or low cost legal help. Many law schools have free law clinics for low income individuals. Because the OP is disabled, perhaps the ACLU would help out (a school accusing a person in a wheelchair of removing a boot would probably, at a minimum, make for some sympathetic news coverage that organizations like ACLU love to generate). So this isn't necessarily something you need to go broke doing.

    4) a guy at Cornell was accused of rape a few years ago. No criminal charges but Cornell punished him by refusing to release his degree for two years. Just on principal, guilty or innocent, a degree revocation for damaging school property seems absurd.

    5) Seriously, why is a community college booting cars?
     
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    In both civil court and in a proceeding that occurred on the campus, the burden of proof is likely the same: preponderance of the evidence. It's a low bar that the college likely had little trouble reaching.
    If they operate a police force, it likely has the same police powers as the local police department. But even if they don't, the student doesn't have the upper hand here--the college does. It's their (or, more accurately, the state's) property, not the student's. I'm sure they can do this.

    But I don't like it, either. Why not just tow the car and have the owner/operator deal with the towing company to get it back? I live near Washington, DC, and no one boots. They all tow--public and private.
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I don't care if the op had a million parking tickets and I don't even care if he was the one who removed the boot (or had someone else do it). The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, isn't it? This whole revocation thing seems way out of proportion. The school's way out of line here. Can I say "way out" one more time? Thanks, you're all way out there.:heart:
     
  12. Mighty_Tiki

    Mighty_Tiki Member

    So...just devil's advocate - you are in a wheelchair which means wheelchair accessible transportation and parking in handicapped designated parking. Did you not have a disability placard visible and were parking in those designated spaces? As someone who has been in social services for a long time, I am finding this just a little hard to believe that they would boot a handicap accessible vehicle. I am not saying the degree revocation was warranted, but there has to be much, much more to this story. Taking a degree away is a serious action for a response to something as you describe (parking tickets). I could see them holding transcripts until the financial obligations are met, but stripping the degree....at any rate, I am in agreement with others here - lawyer up and take all of Dr. Bear's advice.
     
  13. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I agree, get a lawyer, you have due process rights. But one thing that troubles me about the story. Who in the world just goes around removing people's boots off their cars? How did that happen?
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    To me it's an Occam's razor thing. The most likely person to take it off is the one who put it on. If you don't have a key then you'd have to destroy it in order to remove it. Cot sort of cutting tool. Not a torch. Electric. Needs a generator. Takes time. Gets loud. Very conspicuous. A locksmith might have a key. If a department had several they're probably all keyed the same so there more than one key floating around. Maybe we can get someone from the Penn Foster P.I. deptatment to check into it.
     
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If everything the original poster says is the case, I cannot imagine not consulting an attorney.
     
  16. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Let me just clarify that I'm not disputing the college's authority in enforcing parking regulations. If cars are getting booted by campus safety officers, they presumably have the authority to do that (which differs from state to state). I get it.

    I worked on a business campus, for a time, where the security officers were NYS Peace Officers. So they had a fair amount of authority (i.e. making arrests, issuing citations and summonses, use of deadly force etc). But you had the sense that they were there for our protection (and the protection of our assets) rather than unnecessarily inconveniencing people and throwing weight around. Having authority and exercising that authority in a manner consistent with your organization's mission and goals are two separate issues.

    If someone parks illegally in downtown Syracuse, the Syracuse police may have the car towed. That's a function of a city. We pay taxes so that our streets are clean, safe and unobstructed.

    A community college has a different function. It's function is to educate the local population at various levels (ranging from low skilled vocational training to higher skilled vocational training to academic study). So I don't intend to question authority. I suppose I'm questioning whether booting student cars furthers the interests of the college or if it is just some local administrator's play at having a bit of fun with their authority.

    Illegally parked? Ticket my car. Tow my car. Revoke my on-campus parking privileges. But, boot my car? Community colleges tend to serve more students from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. While you might be able to legally boot the car of the gentleman in the wheelchair or the single mom trying to complete the R.N. program, perhaps it does not further the college's (and the local community's) interest to do that. At the same time, they have to enforce parking regulations. So, I don't know where that line gets drawn or where one's outrage should logically begin and end in a situation like this.

    But revoking degrees is a very serious approach. And, in my opinion, should be reserved for academic issues (i.e. plagiarism).
     
  17. Jessehenry

    Jessehenry member

    If I were you I would definitely go for attorney!
     
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Hi Jesse - How's your vacation going?
     
  19. sideman

    sideman Well Known Member

    I'll be happy to check with other alumni and see if they're available. I haven't taken that course, but hey you never know, they might just surprise you.
     
  20. perrymk

    perrymk Member

    There is a local attorney commercial that advocates requesting in writing all security video. Whether its video of your vehicle being booted/unbooted or of the path leading to your vehicle to show who might be involved, request in writing the video as soon as possible. Bear in mind security DVRs are set up to record over old info, typically every 2 to 4 weeks.

    Whether you get the video or not, the fact that you documented a request could weigh in your favor.
     

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