Mind-Body Medical University (MBMU) in Pasadena

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by OpalMoon34, Jan 17, 2010.

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  1. OpalMoon34

    OpalMoon34 member

    This is a new online university offering graduate certificates and doctorates at $249.00/c. hr. It is not accredited by any CHEA-recognized accreditor but seems to have a strong faculty (legit MDs for RSs and ND's from Bastyr and CCNM):

    http://mbmu.org/Faculty.htm

    Comments requested.
     
  2. airtorn

    airtorn Moderator

    Some quotes from the site:

    Good luck trying to get licensed and actually using the degree for medical practice. The info in the quotes needs a big "buyer beware" sign.

    I do note that it is accredited through the American Association of Mind-Body Medicine which currently has one school listed as an accredited member. That's right. Mind-Body Medical University is the only school.

    At this point, it gets a recommendation of "stay away and do not waste your time/money".
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2010
  3. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    "We are unaccredited." > (is greater/better than) "We made up some BS agency, that is really us, to accredit ourselves."
     
  4. OpalMoon34

    OpalMoon34 member

    I agree. Major mistake. But there could be a brighter future for this school if they clean it up and ditch the made-up accreditor. The faculty seems formidable.
     
  5. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Can you rate the tittle Doctor with a Master as highest degree?
    "Dr. Lydia Oh, MS in Oriental Medicine, Assist. Prof., has multiple backgrounds in medical science. She has earned her Master of Science degree in Oriental Medicine from South Baylo University, CA, and Bachelor of Science in Biology from Purdue University, IN."

    "Application Fee $250"

    $250.00 applcaton fee... I think Harvard Business School costs less than that.

    "The Lowest Cost for The Best Double Degree in the Nation !
    Graduate: As Low As $249 / Semester Unit; 747 / mon
    Undergraduate: As Low As $199 / Semester Unit; 597 / mon "

    $199.00 per credit,... I think most of California Schools charge less than that.
     
  6. Tatu998

    Tatu998 New Member

    Great mind-body holistic healthcare university I recommend

    After reading through their web page, I think it's a great creative work they do by integrating psychology and holistic medicine into one degree program. It's why they call it Double Degree, meaning PhD/PsyD in psychology plus doctor in mind-body medicine.

    As a holistic health practitioner, I recommend this school because it is the main movement of today's healthcare; integrative medicine for the mind, body and spirit, the whole being.

    Good luck to the new school, mind-body medical university. Good school name.
     
  7. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Gee, what an amazing coincidence that tatu998 just *happens* to have registered here with the exact same email address as the one used to register the domain name for said school. How unsurprising that s/he likes the name of the school and wishes it luck.

    As someone who has a longstanding background and interest in holisitic medicine, the idea of the school is an interesting one, and there seem to be some well qualified people on the faculty, as OpalMoon points out.

    However, there are also a number of faculty with questionable degrees or degrees from questionable institutions, and the standard millspeak apologia about being unaccredited, combined with the claims about what one can do with the degree are inexcusable.

    The PsyD. they grant is unaccredited and unrecognized by APA, making it near worthess, and the so-called "MBMD" is not recognized by anyone (other than, possibly, the fake accreditor they've set up.)

    Why, oh why do people do this? If you really want to do a program like this, partner with a legitimate, accredited school and share teaching responsibilities with them and "piggyback" on their accreditation. Lose the bogus degrees that will never be recognized.

    If you really want a mind-body medicine degree, get an ND from Bastyr or National, and a Ph.D or Psy.D from CIIS or one of the APA-accredited humanistic psychology programs, not a nearly worthless degree from an unaccredited school that disingenuously claims accreditation from a fake accreditor AND posts here claiming to be an unbiased third party.
     
  8. Tatu998

    Tatu998 New Member

    Honest response to your comment and thank you Chip for your suggestions

    Yes, I am voluntarily helping the school MBMU. As a holistic healthcare practitioner in the same field I like to contribute some efforts to the new school. There is nothing hidden at today’s computerized age. The holistic medicine and psychology practitioners work together to build the school. I am not able to teach like those doctors but I like to get the degree. In fact I plan to enroll the PhD degree.

    I voluntarily help with some parts of computer work. It’s why I registered the domain for the school sometime ago. I also learn how people comments about the school, get people’s feedback to them and help them to improve. This is the way they honestly operate and keep up self-quality improvement. They stated on the website that they are unaccredited, but working with APA to get it eventually. This is natural process for any new school. There is no way to get accreditation first without running the school for certain time of period. All accredited schools at today were also unaccredited at the beginning. I would like to encourage we positively help the good school grow as they have the strong courage to build up new concept and good spirit for the society.

    They also invite outside professionals in the filed to give comments and suggestions. They call this self-quality control until they get accredited. I think any new school should go through this way. It also means they care about their education and students.

    Your suggestion is really good especially the point like working with other accredited school, share teaching responsibilities and make sure the degree is accredited until they get their own accreditation. This is really good suggestion. I will pass this to the school board. Thank you so much. This is why I am here to listen comments and suggestions.

    Regarding their MBMD, yes, you are right, it is new, Mind-Body Medicine has no degree so far. But it is a new movement and a lot of discussions about this recently. Even the Harvard mind-body medical institute also teaches and researches in this field. I think the degree in Mind-Body Medicine is a natural movement today.

    I think this discussion is very helpful for the school. This is the way we can help them grow. Personally I am not part of the school, but I will be the student of the school. I want to say thanks to everyone’s comments. Thank you all.

    Sincerely,

    Tatu
     
  9. vadro

    vadro New Member

    Looking at the website, they removed the "Dr" title, now is :"Lydia Oh, MS in Oriental Medicine, Assist. Prof".

    They must have read your post.:rolleyes:
     
  10. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Almost reminds me of the days of the old MIGS. For those who don't know, this was one of Sheila Danzig's many attempts at running an unwonderful school. MIGS claimed to be associated with a proper Mexican school, but the Mexican school didn't have doctoral programs, which MIGS specialized in, and no one was ever able to get a straight answer as to whether it was on the up-and-up.

    There was constantly all sorts of unwonderful and ill-advised stuff on the website, and it was a sort of cat-and-mouse game; we'd post a link to some embarrassing or inappropriate information they had on their site, and usually within a couple of hours, they had erased all evidence of it.

    But on to MBMU...

    First, shills who don't identify themselves as such aren't appreciated here. Implying one has no connection with the school and then being discovered to be the person who registered the domain does not help the credibility of the school.

    Second, yes, there are plenty of new schools who are not yet accredited, and every school was, at some point, unaccredited. But MBMU makes all sorts of outrageous claims, some of which are grossly unprofessional; since the school is unaccredited, it is unlikely that a person graduating with a degree from the school will be able to be licensed by the behavioral sciences board in any state in the US. Likewise, many positions in the US require graduation from a school with an APA accredited psychology program; given there are few such programs, and fewer yet that offer programs via distance learning, there's little at this point to indicate that MBMU will attain APA accreditation.

    Third, as far as I'm aware, there aren't any APA accredited schools that do not have regional accreditation. Western States, the accreditor that serves California, has not historically been very friendly to distance-based programs, particularly distance-based doctoral programs, and in any case, the path to regional accreditation is a very long one.

    Fourth, the claims on the site are pretty overblown and a lot of blanket generalized statements about what a graduate can expect are made.

    While I can see there are some apparently well qualified people listed on the faculty, names on a webpage do not a good school make. I would like to believe that this is a sincere effort to start an innovative and high quality program, but at this point, there isn't a whole lot of evidence supporting that notion.
     
  11. OpalMoon34

    OpalMoon34 member

    Attention MBMU!

    Attention folks at MBMU! If you are reading this, please consider the following:

    1. Drop the fake accreditor, people know it's fake and it only makes you look like shite

    2. Hire a professional writer and an academician to work side-by-side and reword/edit everything on your site. It is currently replete with glaring grammatical errors and outrageous claims

    3. Cut your tuition fee in half. Wait until you have a number of notable grads and at least a DETC or similar accreditation before considering an increase

    4. Read thru the degreeinfo forum, you will learn a lot of things that you can actually use to legitimise your biz

    5. Consider a new professional-looking website design. Please do spend some money for your website (it's worth it!) and don't leave the work for your 12 year-old kid to do

    Get back to us when you've done all these!
     
  12. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Just in case someone runs across this thread in Google, Tatu998 is a shill for MBMU, is the listed owner of the domain, and has repeatedly spammed degreeinfo representing him/herself as a disinterested third party without disclosing that s/he is, in fact, associated with the school.

    The school was representing itself as being accredited by a fake accreditor; this alone is one of the biggest tip-offs of a fraudulent school. It also claims (without any possible justification) that it will be properly accredited (presumably by APA) before the first graduates graduate. This timeline is simply not possible.

    I just checked, and as I suspected, APA only accredits programs offered by schools that have already received regional accreditation. This, alone, puts MBMU's claims dead in the water, since I doubt there's any realistic chance they will ever qualify for regional accreditation. Were it to somehow manage to qualify, it takes years to do so, and the school must have been operating, and educating students for some time before it can even apply for candidacy.

    So claims made on their site that they are seeking APA accreditation are misguided at best and blatantly false at worst; it's obvious that the school officials haven't even bothered to read the requirements for accreditation, or they would know there's little to no hope they'll ever qualify.

    Their accreditation section pulls out the well worn millspeak about Harvard operating without accreditation for years and the (false) claim that some of Harvard's programs are still not accredited; clearly MBMU officials don't even understand the difference between institutional and programmatic accreditation.

    There are so many other inflated and outrageous claims that I can't help but assume it's just another mill, and that's sad, because it looks like it could have had potential. But right now, there would be absolutely no point in attending such a school, as the degree granted by such a program would have no utility for its intended purpose.
     
  13. Tatu998

    Tatu998 New Member

    Thanks all

    Hi Chip and OpalMoon34,

    Thanks a lot for all your comments and suggestions. Both your's comments and others were good. OpalMoon34's points from 1 to 5 are all good.

    I will pass these to the school. I truly believe that humbly listening to these comments is helpful for a new school that wants to improve and grow. I agree that the web site writing needs to be improved more and more. I think your suggestions are reflected or going to be reflected in their future efforts.

    Because initially someone brought up the school and when I read it, I wanted to add my comment, it's why I registered. But I think I got say enough, and also as suggested I do not want to damage anyone or anything, so, Chip, could you please help delete my account? I could not find the way to do it myself, thank you very much if you can help delete the account. This is my last posting and also come to say thanks for all comments and suggestions.

    Thank you again for the nice work and community.

    Sincerely,

    Tuta
     
  14. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    This is a coolest school ever...where both accreditated body and the school in the same office. If you attend Greendale Community College, you might get a better job than Mind-Body Medicine University.
     
  15. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    My guess is that licensed naturopthic physicians used the same "great creative work" when they ripped off the label naturopathy from traditional naturopaths and combined it with some conventional health and science courses found in allopathic medicine, in order to create a new hybrid brand of medicine, with no real basis.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many people enroll in alternative health care programs costing thousands of dollars, despite most of these institutions having no formal recognition, whatsoever. At best, the MBMD degree is laughable, irrrespective of how many people decide to jump onboard the "main movement" bandwagon, you make mention of. If thousands of people are conferred degrees from an unaccredited institution, it does not make them valid, under law.
     
  16. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    OpalMoon's signature line:
    "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance. – Andy McIntyre"

    Well, yes, Andy McIntyre did say that . . . but about 20 years after it was said by Harvard President Derek Bok.
     
  17. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    We don't need to delete your account, just stay away.
     
  18. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    It's the other way around. The legitimate naturopaths (the schools like Bastyr and National in the US, which are the two oldest and most credible) have been around a long time and their schools recognized by the USDOE-recognized accreditor CNME. They have an internship requirement which is performed at a clinic associated with the school, and have some pretty hefty science and biology requirements, similar in nature to conventional medical schools.

    The fake naturopaths are all "trained" (if you can call it that) by one of a bunch of unwonderful schools such as Clayton College of Natural Health or Westbrook University or some even more awful ones. The education the fake naturopaths get is minimal in comparison to the properly accredited schools; basically they read books and materials and/or listen to lecture tapes, many written and published by well meaning but not really qualified authors, and many of which are written for a popular audience rather than a scholarly audience. The fake schools graduate people who have essentially no valid credentials, minimal training and knowledge, could not pass a licensing exam, have never been in any sort of supervised clinical internship, and are in no way qualified to be diagnosing and treating people. In fact, Clayton College disingenuously claims that none of its graduates diagnose or treat anything, that they are just "nutritional coaches"... but if you take a quick look around the Internet or any natural health convention, it's full of bogus naturopaths, many of whom graduated from Clayton or schools like it, holding themselves out as qualified to diagnose and tread every disease under the sun. Some hold themselves out as qualified to treat life threatening illnesses, like cancer, heart disease, etc.

    The real schools, while they aren't perfect, do turn out well trained naturopathic doctors who are qualified to treat patients, and in some states can perform surgery and prescribe medications. The legitimate naturopathic society and its members does conduct research, publish it, and have scholarly discussions about their work. The physicians-in-training go through an internship and residency (though nowhere near as rigorous as an MD's training) and emerge much better qualified (and with a much clearer idea of their limitations in scope of practice) than their ill-trained counterparts.

    I agree with this statement. The MBMD degree is complete BS (and I don't mean Bachelor of Science!) and, if they were trying to develop a genuine curriculum similar to an MD degree, with subspecialty in mind-body medicine (which would be a worthwhile undertaking), then they would be doing something like working with Andrew Weil's program at University of Arizona- Tucson, or with some of the innovative work being done at Hahnemann in Philadelphia, or some place like that... not trying to start a new degree from scratch with a handful of people with credentials ranging from impeccable to highly questionable.
     
  19. CS1

    CS1 New Member

    Basically, naturopathic physicians have one foot in the waters of traditional naturopathy and the other foot in allopathic medicine. In short, it's hybrid medicine and there's no reason for anyone to see a naturopathic physician, when they can see a real MD, that graduated from medical school.

    Pretty much all of your alternative medicine and modalities are loosely based around programs from unaccredited schools. The exception would be for CAM therapies like acuppuncture, massage and chiropractors, which generally entail academic programs from accredited schools. Despite such accreditation, however, it does not mean that there is any scientific basis to those CAM therapies. Similarly, because a handful of accredited schools are offering programs leading to the ND degree, does not mean there is any scientific basis to naturopathy.

    In fact, naturopathy, like most alternative based medicine today is for the most part hinged around junk science. For anyone facing a real emergency or crisis, they would be better served by an EMT tech, RN, PA or MD; rather than some fringe physician sporting an ND credential, irrrespective of what accreditation was behind it.

    I contend that the ND degree was driven by egotistical baby boomers desiring to be physicians, but that lacked the grades and aptitude to be accepted into traditional medical school. Thus, we now have a small group of fringe physicians and schools that have lobbied the local, state and federal government, in order to lend legitimacy to the junk science of naturopathy.

    In sum, this lowering of the bar is not unusual and seems to be rampant in all facets of the educational system. Basically, it's the moral equivalent of no naturopath shall be left behind .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2010
  20. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    It's obvious you have a distaste for, or else a fundamental lack of understanding of, properly trained/licenseable naturopathic physicians. Your explanation simply isn't true, and the assumptions are simply incorrect, but it isn't worth arguing about, because my experience is that people who take the sort of stand you do aren't interested in understanding the value and purpose of naturopathic physicians.

    One place where we do agree -- and every licenseable naturopath would also agree -- is in the area of emergency medicine. Naturopaths, even at the better schools, don't receive much training in emergency or trauma medicine. That isn't what they do. Likewise, medical doctors generally do not receive much training on things like nutrition or stress management or other areas where naturopaths are generally much better educated. They are simply very different specialties/focuses,

    I'll definitely acknowledge that an MD who has gone through the effort of getting the additional training that an ND has would be a better choice as a primary physician than a licenseable ND would be, but those are few and far between, and for many, an ND is quite well equipped to handle most, if not all, common, non-crisis medical issues, and often with a less expensive and less intrusive treatment plan that is as effective and, in many cases, more effective than conventional medicine.
     

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