Medication or Dedication?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Oct 17, 2010.

  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    If the problem is clinical or severe, then by all means, get the help you need, even if it means medication and professional therapy. However, the situation described by the OP in the other thread was not a physiological condition, rather, one that was brought about due to unfortunate circumstances. There is a huge difference, and while one may lead to the other, it is not a necessary transition, and it is dangerous to confuse the two.

    No one needs to educate me on what depression is, I lived it for several years. Depression is a vicious cycle of the truest sort. Its symptoms cause you to make bad decisions which make the symptoms themselves worse. It is the emotional equivalent to cancer. One day I made a drastic change to my life's philosophy, and simply decided not to be depressed anymore. It worked. I'm cured of depression and I can guarantee you that you have never met someone happier, nor who loves life more than I. That's right, I'm not one of those people who learned to "deal" or "cope" with my condition, I basically told my condition to go away, and it did... I win!

    What pill could have done that for me? Certainly not the ones whose side effects include heightened risk of suicide. Certainly not the ones that were prescribed to all of my depressed family members who became addicts, later moving on to alcohol, cocaine and heroin.

    Oh, and what therapist would have helped me to see that I don't need therapy? :rolleyes:
  2. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    I am glad things worked out for you MC. Your condition must not have been chemically induced (born with it). Many/not all people can't just tell their depression to go away. If it were that easy, everyone would do it. If for example, your brain does not produce enough serotonin, you need meds, praying, meditation, martial arts, nothing will work, I also know this from experience.

    I am glad the OP says she can deal with it by bucking up. I hope she is successful, and I will pray for her. But, I agree with Chip. To say SSRI's and therapy are bad in all cases is not right, and it is even irresponsible. As far as meds causing people to have suicide. This is usually one out of a million, and these individuals were probably already predisposed to commit suicide.

    See we agree to disagree bro,

    Abner :)
  3. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    No. It took me years to do it. Some people never do it. It includes things like eating healthy, drinking enough water, getting a full night's sleep, going outside, being active, having solid goals, seeing the good in everything and looking past the bad, forgiving others, forgiving yourself... all sorts of stuff that most Americans hate doing.
  4. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    I'm not touching the Rx/no Rx debate, however you are on point here. The problem with our system (and I include all health care in my sweeping generalization) is that it's "commission based" of sorts. Clearly all practitioners benefit from you needing them- a chiropractor, an MD, a therapist, a dentist and as long as practitioners are paid according to how much they can crack/prescribe/talk/evaluate/choose your word, there will be abuses and overuse. But what is the alternative? If not the doctor, then who? Who decides you need more sessions? Who decides you need weekly chiropractic care? Who decides surgery is the best option? I also would suggest that by the doctor setting your next appt, he just confirmed/planted that YOU NEED MEDICAL CARE in your mind. People love to say they have an illness. I don't know why.

    Think about that Geiko commercial with the military guyd- who has a patient "yellow makes me sad" and the "doc" tells him they should chug on over to mamby-pamby land and get some self confidence! Laugh, but in reality, how does one know the difference between a patient who can get over it and one without the self resources to? Simply they don't. And therapists might do all kinds of science-type things in research, but in practice it's a blood test and a physical. So, it's judgement. *which is probably why medicine has such a conflict with soft science...but that's for another day.

    What about real care? Who decides? You can't say the patient, because patients are EASILY MANIPULATED AND LED, but can you say the doctor? The one who knows best how to create "medical necessity?" What patient argues with this process? NONE because it means the difference between insurance paying and out of pocket. It's really a problem, and people smarter than me have tried to fix it for years.

    But, all this to say, Maniac, your insight and stick-to-it-iveness is to be admired. Way to go.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2010
  5. threedogs

    threedogs New Member

    I both agree - and disagree with you here.

    I think this society, Western Medicine in particular, relies on the Magic Pills way too much. (Is it a symptom of our society today, or vice versa - guess that'd be a whole 'nuther conversation). Yet I cannot discount the benefit of medication. If a person goes through too much hard times, too much extreme stress, it can lead to a need for medication and some sort of counseling method. I don't necessarily think that the 'counseling' needs to be a psychologist (here I am, speaking as a current Psych major, lol - guess I'd put myself out of business if I decided to continue & pursue a further degree in this). To me, what you did:

    ..falls into what I consider to be counseling. There is also a need to just talk to someone about the awful things that may have happened - who wants to outwear their family & friends' empathy by talking their ears off (it's not fair to them or the relationship - believe me, I've been on the other end and it can get frustrating & old, very fast) endlessly? I've also witnessed friends, relatives of friends, who refused to get help, yet stayed in that pattern their whole lives. It's very sad and all I could, eventually, was step away.

    I don't want to be like that!

    Another sort of random thought: I also think that we've discounted the need to mourn in our society in the U.S. today. It's normal, and it's needed. Not sure when it crosses the line between normal and a symptom of PTSD (very real, and many are untreated, I believe), but I'm aware, to say the least.

    I also want to mention to you, Maniac, that it is fantastic that you were able to take those steps that led to your healing/recovery from depression. But not everyone is able to do it on their own. Too bad there aren't more great therapists out there - when one comes across a bad one, it is very difficult to keep searching since our psych's are so tender, so to speak.
  6. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    So far, every time someone has disagreed with me, it has been about something that I never even said. :slap:
  7. threedogs

    threedogs New Member

    Sorry! :Eyecrazy: Blame it on brain-fog induced by too much mental activity yesterday, along with sugar overload from all the candy-freebies at UMass. :laugh2: Yeah, so much for my healthy-eating...
  8. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    That approach does work for some people, but it's really trivializing to people who have a serious depression that doesn't respond to just "deciding not to be depressed".

    Not all depressed people become addicts, and not all addicts are depressed. Choosing to abuse alcohol or drugs is a byproduct of failed coping mechanisms for stress, depression, or other difficulties, which may be exacerbated by a heriditary predisposition. But implying that it's a bad idea to prescribe antidepressants or other mood elevators to help combat depression as a part of an overall treatment plan is simply not correct. I agree that prescribing meds as a solution rather than an interim coping strategy is, in most cases, a bad idea. But a well-developed treatment plan that addresses the issues through a combination of interventions can be very successful in the long term.

    Any good therapist will help a client to know when it's time to quit therapy. Furthermore, a good therapist will also recognize that sometimes a client may still need therapy, but needs a different therapist to break some of the patterns that have developed with the existing client-therapist relationship. Saying a therapist will never tell a client that s/he is ready to leave therapy is like saying all car mechanics or doctors or anybody else are just out to get as much money from you as possible. It's not true and it's pretty offensive to people in that line of work.
  9. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Or, you could be trivializing me by saying that my depression wasn't serious. You might disagree with me, which is quite alright, but it still sounds like you are responding to things that I never said. In fact, so far, you and I have agreed on more than we have disagreed, and it feels like you are refuting some phantom Maniac Craniac that has taken a much more extreme position than I have.

    Neither do all people who eat raw pork get brain parasites, but it would not be wrong to point it out as dangerous. Addiction is a real problem, as is the gateway effect.

    The United States has the highest percentage of depression sufferers in the world. How about instead trying to find the cause, rather than react to the effect? Sure a tracheotomy may be a necessary procedure to save a person's life who is in critical condition, but the necessity for the procedure would plummet if people were to stop smoking. Apply that analogy to treatments for depression.

    I certainly hope so.

    I'm not a fan of your heavy use of red herrings. It's easy to refute irrational, extreme arguments (those of the straw-man sort), especially when you use words like "never" and "always." It is however a different situation entirely to refute a position that someone actually took.

    By the way, I was scammed by every mechanic that I ever brought my car to, so I learned how to do all maintenance and most repairs on my own. Your analogy may have been a good one, but you unwittingly presented it to the wrong person :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2010

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