MBA vs PhD for getting into higher education administration

Hello all,

I'm having a discussion with my wife about future prospective employment ideas for both of us. I am a former Marine with 6 years teaching experience at the School of Infantry and as an intelligence analyst in Quantico. I've got a lot of supervisory/administrative/managerial experience I'd like to try to leverage with the combination of an appropriate degree.

So here are the facts:

- Looking to work somewhere in the northern parts of Southern California (from Oceanside and Laguna Niguel all the way inland to Santa Ana, Riverside, etc). I'm not really looking into San Diego region because I know it's very saturated (and you know that it would obviously be anyone's first choice).

- 8 years in the Marines, 2 years as a reservist, 3 as a combat instructor (master instructor cert) + two awards for teaching excellence (NAMs), and another 3 as an inspector-instructor staff (teaching and managerial administration).

- BA Sociology, AMU (DL because of frequent deployments)

- MA English, National University (DL because I had money saved up to be a stay-at-home dad [DL degrees are a parent's best friend])

- Key experiences: Teaching/lecturing, Budget and financial analysis, high-stress (+fast turnaround) project management, leadership mentoring and team-building, operations and logistics analysis. [please note that all of this experience was related to military operations]

Here are my resources:

- 16 months MGIB ch30 left; then an additional 12 post 9/11 GI bill benefits. I also did Family Readiness counseling and can explain this more to you if you have questions about veteran benefits.

Here are my requirements:

- DL program

Here is what I'm thinking:

- Option #1: MBA program, and use whatever is left of my benefits to get a second masters and/or a certificate (accounting? finance?)

-- Attractions: Mobility (what if HigherEd doesn't pan out? what if federal jobs become available in the region? [I'm constantly patrolling usajobs.gov]); Content (I love designing business models and strategies for finance, marketing, development, and operations.)

-- Concerns: lack of doctoral degree will be a hinderance

- Option #2: PhD in Business Management or Education with concentrations in higher education leadership / administration.

-- Attractions: I love to research and write and can combine both in a PhD; I already have research ideas geared toward higher education business management (that I've been thinking and reading literature about, which has motivated me to consider this option).

-- Concerns: Will require more student loans (not too concerned if job prospects are reasonable); will take a lot longer than an MBA program (does this matter?)

- Option #3: ??? [what do you think?] Maybe the MBA or PhD route is completely off track, and I should be concerned with something else.

I'm interested to hear your opinions, specifically if (and how) military experience can be leveraged in applying to jobs in higher education.

What do you think is a good option for me, considering my background and what I want to do (leverage my experience to gain employment in a position in higher education that will provide the necessary experiences to move up the administrative ladder into more managerial/executive roles)?

Thank you all for your time,
- Jesse

 

I would go for a PhD from a traditional on campus University. You have two distance degrees and it might hinder you the fact that all your degrees are distance but you want to work in a traditional University. Administration jobs at University level require a lot of networking and a distance PhD might not give you this as well.

I would register in a traditional PhD and try to get some administration experience while you do your PhD.

MBAs are dime a dozen nowadays so a more focused doctorate degree might give you the edge.

If the full time residential PhD doesn't appeal you, you might want to do a M.Ed in educational technology, there are plenty of opportunities in this area as well in the administration side and a distance education degree might not hinder you as education technologist are required to have online education experience.

 

You might want to consider tweaking Option 1 to an MS in Accounting v. an MBA + Accounting Certificate. There is a shortage of Accounting Faculty.

Your military experience, along with an advanced accounting degree; would make you a very attractive civilian or academic hire.

 

Lacking a doctoral degree will hinder you in higher education, but almost nowhere else. Point, MBA

Assessing the future value of the doctorate is hard unless you know what you're committed to studying and becoming. Point, MBA.

Getting into a doctoral program without a relevant masters is hard. Even if you do, you'll have a longer slog at it, essentially doing another master's along the way. Point, MBA.

The MBA is way more flexible in terms of defining you--it tends to be less exclusionary than a more specific (academic or vocational) master's. Point, MBA.

Having a doctorate is a kick-ass way of distinguishing yourself. Point, doctorate.

Doctorate holders tend to make more money than do master's holders. Point, doctorate.

Doing a doctorate will establish your professional and (maybe) academic identities. Point, doctorate.

Doing the doctorate--especially without a relevant master's--will take years more than an MBA. Point, MBA.

You can do an MBA and figure yourself out later. Point, MBA.

Score? Depends upon how you weight these points, as well as others you think up. But an MBA is a way to advance your career prospects when you don't know what you want to become. A more specific master's can help if you DO know what you want to become, but don't want to take the doctoral route. Also, you can decide if that route is for you without having committed years and heaps of money towards a doctorate you find you don't want.

Lots of good suggestions in this thread. Good luck!

 

Having an MBA will permanently mark you as an evil, greedy, money-grubbing son of a bitch.

 

I was actually just talking about this with some friends of mine in the financial industry. With my experience with investing and entrepreneurship, they said focusing on accountancy could satisfy a professional requirement (assuming I can pass the CPA exam...) and satisfy a personal requirement (the ability to teach in the future). This is not the first time I've heard that accounting is a sought after field in higher education, and have even dived into higheredjobs.com to confirm the field's demand in my region.

To clarify, are you suggesting that instead of considering an MBA with a business-related concentration, I consider a MS in Accounting or MBA with Accounting certificate? If this is the case, I would prefer concentration in a subject and I would go to the MS route. (On that note: Do you think there's a difference between a master of accountancy and a master of science in accounting? [I know there is a curricular difference; I'm wondering if there is a difference in perception/applicability])

 

You make that sound like a bad thing... LOL - seriously, it works immensely to one's advantage to show the world otherwise...

 

Generally - there is little to no difference in the perception between a MS - Accounting and a Master of Accountancy. There is a BIG difference between those degrees and an MBA with an Accounting Concentration.

I also agree with your friends, your experience in investing and entrepreneurship + an advanced accounting degree would make you a VERY attractive candidate for Higher Ed.

I'm attaching some links from Get Educated.com, sorting by price. You can earn that MS - Accounting (or related) for under 20K - and that includes from AACSB schools. Good luck!

Online Degree Search Results: 1386 Accredited Online Masters Degree Programs | GetEducated.com

Online Degree Search Results: 376 Accredited Online MBA Degree Programs | GetEducated.com

 

Usually MS Accounting degrees are for holders of a BS in Accounting while the Master of Accountancy is meant for people with no accounting background and wish to qualify for the CPA exam.

The CPA requires 150 credits in most states and for this reason the 30 credit master's degree.

If you want to teach, the MS in Accounting is more powerful than an a Master of Accountancy or MBA in Accounting.

A CPA usually requires experience in a CPA firm and not just general accounting, a CMA is more flexible in terms of experience.

A MS in Accounting + CPA is a good combination to teach. However, bear in that due to the shortage, most schools would consider a MS +CPA for a full time teaching position but this will change in the future as many schools are providing online PhD in Accounting opportunities (e.g. Walden, Capella) and eventually the PhD in Accounting will become the norm for a teaching position.

 

Meant to post this last night but got sidetracked so here it is. Looking at the federal employment side of this, no one cares what degrees you have. I have an MBA and that alone gives me more education than almost all of my supervisors and several peers. I have a similar background to the OP and having the MBA did nothing for me.

 

My experience as a GS-15 and as a hiring manager is and has been quite different, with degrees held being a significant distinguishing factor in hiring. (And, as not everyone knows, each promotion is also a hiring action with competition.) And on a personal level, I can assert with great assurance that I would not have been able to start my government career at the GS-15 level if I did not have a doctorate. That isn't by regulation, but by practice.

 

Wow, our experiences are completely different. The best I could do was land a GS-7 logistics management intern posistion that I am way over qualified for.

 

This is unfortunate, and not just for you. It also is a mistake the government makes all the time. Because they've brought you in at that grade--too low by your description--you'll be encouraged to more around to get selected for jobs at higher grades. And because the 52-week rule is still in effect, you'll have to move each year to get promoted, unless you get selected into a job on a track (where you get promoted "in place" for one or more subsequent grades). But each time you get promoted it means you've changed jobs. Having an employee change jobs every year or so in order to be promoted isn't good. It creates turmoil and a lack of continuity.

Let's say you really should be at a GS-13 level. Now you'll have to wait a year (minimum) for each grade increase (4 years total, minimum), changing jobs many times during that period. Who gains from that? Sure, it can be mitigated if your agency has internal openings to fill, but it would be better if you stayed in place and in grade for awhile and got productive at that level before moving on.

Another alternative is to stay a year, securing your status and removing you from probation, then leave government entirely. After leaving, come back in at a grade level commensurate with your civilian salary. We had two such cases. A GS-5 left, became a contractor, and in less than a year was re-hired (at another agency) as a GS-11. In another case, a GS-12 left to become a contractor and, after a bit more than a year, we re-hired him as a GS-15. Just a thought.

Good luck in your career.

 

In the executive departments of federal government, I would say anything above a Bachelor's degree is not required for most jobs up to the GS-15 Level. (SES may be a different story.)

If you're going for a "science" or "social science" job like a statistician, economist, then I can see the Master's in Stats and Econ, respectively, working for you. Those people get hired at a GS-9 level if they are first time federal government employees. The same with PhD holders: they get hired at GS-11 first time around.

If the hiring manager has two equally competent candidates, then the advance degree may be a tie breaker. But then pre-selection is a reality in the federal workplace and what not.

Once the "certificate of eligible" candidates clears human resources and gets to the hiring manager, the hiring manager can justify hiring pretty much any candidate, but not if there are veterans on the list. Once there are veterans on the list, all bets are off for the non-vets having a chance at getting the job. The hiring manager then hopes she will get a qualified veteran candidate. This is one of the reaosn why a civilian candidate may not be able to get a federal government job these days. Vets have priority.

It is easier to move up the GS scale in some agencies than in others.

 

Comments, anybody?

 

Location is also a factor in moving up quickly. Once I hit GS-12 then I'll start looking to change locations or agency, until then I will enjoy the no real responsibility of being an intern.