masters in psychology

Discussion in 'Nursing and medical-related degrees' started by annie, Nov 17, 2001.

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  1. simon

    simon New Member

     
  2. simon

    simon New Member

    I apologize for the double posting as listed above. I tried to erase one of the postings but was not successful

    However, in my previous posting, I forgot to add that I have also supervised large numbers of psychiatric social workers at the masters and bachelors level during the past twenty eight years or so. I am only relating this information in response to Jack's inquiry as to my crediblty
     
  3. Howard

    Howard New Member

    *******E N O U G H*********

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    Howard Rodgers
     
  4. simon

    simon New Member

    Howard, what happened to "Go Jack go". Well, I forgive you (just kidding Howard).
     
  5. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I began posting in this thread in response to the following two statements made by Simon:
    "The personality typology, professional goals, values, interests and intellectual capacity of individuals who seek counseling, social work or clinical psychology as professions may not be as similar as one may imagine..."
    "Also to equate an internship in counseling or social work with one from an APA approved clinical psychology program is a major leap."
    Simon made these statements as if they were statements of fact when they are clearly statements of opinion. He can not present anything to support them and becomes snippy when challenged to do so. I never stated that Social Workers and Psychologists were hierarchically equal, it is Simon that is hung up on hierarchies. I simply stated that I know treatment teams that are led by Social Workers (and not by their Psychologist colleagues). I simply maintained that the internships were essentially equal and Simon is unable to prove his point that they are not. I also stated that it would probably be smarter to get an MSW in todays market. Simon essentially agrees with me, this based on his own comments in the thread entitled "new phd." I'm just trying to get Simon to put his money where his mouth is. I mean, no offense to hospital administrators but what do they know about these matters anyway? Finally, Simon stated in his last posting that he was the "clinical supervisor to 125 psychiatrists." I have never met a psychiatrist (and hope I never do) who would take clinical supervision from a hospital administrator who doesn't even have a psychology degree. Good luck Simon, I hope it all works out for you.
    Jack
     
  6. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

    Howard,

    I hope you don’t receive this as a confrontation; it is not so intended. Your report of using social workers to conduct psychological assessments in this public forum places me in a dilemma. You’ve indicated that you aspire to psychology licensure and if you should happen to be a member of the American Psychological Association I am obligated to offer a word of consultation. Perhaps social workers in Alabama are privileged to conduct psychometric assessments using instruments like the MMPI and the Wechsler scales. If so, fine. If not, you may have engaged in an unethical or even fraudulent practice. I am bound by the APA ethical principles, which require that I share this concern. I thought long and hard about how to address this situation including consultation with a colleague who spent a number of years as a member of a Midwestern state psychology board. My colleague confirmed my thought that I am obliged to bring this to your attention.
     
  7. simon

    simon New Member

    Reponse: It is too bad that you lost the focus of this thread and took it on another track. Your comments and verbiage in the above passage demonstrates that you did not "read" or misinterpreted my professional background, which you requested.
    I clearly delineated the fact that I am an Administrator/Clinician ( Jack, do you know what a Clinician is?) who provides administrative and/or clinical supervision to interdiscplinary treatment teams, not only Psychiatrists as you erroneously note above. No Jack, I am not going to describe the differnce between administrative and clinical supervision because I have spent enough time with an indivdual who is apparently having a difficult time dealing with the facts I presented.

    To annie, I suggest, that you explore the relevant issues discussed in this thread and perform your own research(i.e. speak with department heads of universities regarding these professions, visit diverse places of employment where these professions are employed and observe the diverse roles and tasks they perform,etc)that will supply you with the information you need to make a relevant and satisfying career decision.
     
  8. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    Simon - Your condescension is palpable and betrays your fundamentally elitist attitude. You slip quite easily into derision, asking me if I know what a clinician is, implying that I don't know the difference between administrative and clinical supervision, etc. You repeatedly present opinions as facts and then refuse to provide supporting references. You make yourself look bad when you do these things. You say that you are a "clinician" but you are clearly avoiding any meaningful disclosure of your credentials. What degrees do you have? What is your clinical background? I have been clear about the fact that my opinions are based on my clinical training and experience. They are not "facts," they are my experiences and opinions and I have described them only as such. I might consider your opinions to have some weight if there was reason to believe you've had some experience/training that might generate worthwhile opinion. After all, anyone can go online and say they're an administrator/clinician. It happens quite frequently on this forum, Dr. Maybelle Jones apparently being the most recent example (whoever (s)he really is).
    So how about it Simon, do you want to lend some credibility to your opinions or do you want to stay in the shadows?
    Jack
     
  9. simon

    simon New Member

    Response: Goodnight Jack.
     
  10. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    OK Mike, off to bed with you now. I'm on vacation but you probably have to get up and go to work tomorrow.
    Jack
     
  11. Howard

    Howard New Member

    In the mental health arena in my state anyone with a license can administer tests - also the LPC here gives that explicit right, matter of fact there is little difference in Alabama between what a Clinical Psych can do and what an LPC can do. But, I do appreciate you concern and counsel. And when in the blazes did you get 125 psychiatrists together. I bet that was a hoot.



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    Howard Rodgers
     
  12. David Williams

    David Williams New Member

    [/B][/QUOTE]In the mental health arena in my state anyone with a license can administer tests -

    And when in the blazes did you get 125 psychiatrists together. I bet that was a hoot.

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Howard, thank you for the clarification; I suspect you grasp that I did not wish to commit an ethical infraction by way of omission.

    To say that I’m surprised that the Alabama licensure act privileges social workers to conduct psychometric assessment is an understatement. There was absolutely nothing in my very clinically oriented MSW program that even remotely addressed psychometrics. I notice that you use the term “administer” as opposed to interpreting the data and forming diagnostic impressions. I don’t want to misunderstand so let me clarify this as well. Does Alabama endorse MSWs to interpret as well as administer psychological tests? Thanks.

    Jack Tracey, are MSWs in your state so privileged? Have NASW and CSWE included psychological assessment as and additional area of practice since I transitioned 20 years ago?

    Lastly, I don't understand about 125 psychiatrists???
     
  13. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    [/B][/QUOTE]
    ...snip...
    Jack Tracey, are MSWs in your state so privileged? Have NASW and CSWE included psychological assessment as and additional area of practice since I transitioned 20 years ago?

    Lastly, I don't understand about 125 psychiatrists???

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    No, I've never had any training in psych. testing although I've imagined that it would be a good idea for Social Work schools to offer an elective course just so that students might better understand the reports that those darned Psychologists crank out. I think that it's possible to receive post graduate training in order to be licensed to administer/interpret some limited number of specific testing instruments but essentially this remains the province of Clinical Psychology. As for the 125 psychiatrists...
    Simon made a statement that he had given clinical and administrative supervision to 125 psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. etc.
    I misquoted him in my response when I questioned his qualifications to give clinical supervision to psychiatrists. He chided me on the misquotation but never explained how a person who doesn't even have a psychology degree can give clinical supervision to Psychiatrists and Psychologists.
    Jack
     
  14. simon

    simon New Member

    Hi David Williams,

    As I am certain you noticed in several of my previous postings, I attempted to explain the fact that I perform either clinical or administrative supervision to a number of interdisciplinary team members. Obviously, I did not specifically state that I provided clinical supervision to Psychologists or Psychiatrists. I provide administrative supervision to these individuals. However,I do provide clinical supervision to some of the other disciplines as noted which are within my scope of training, education and expertise.

    Have a good dey.
     
  15. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    I'm sorry Simon but what is obvious is that you stated that you gave clinical and administrative supervision to psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. This clearly means that you gave both types of supervision to all the staff members listed (don't take my word for it, go reread the posting itself). I don't care much about that though. I can chalk it up to a misplaced modifier during a late night web surfing expedition. After all, I didn't really think you were actually giving clinical supervision to the secretaries. I am a bit surprised that you continue to refuse to describe your clinical background, degrees, schools, etc.
    Jack
     
  16. Howard

    Howard New Member

    Yeah, Simon, let us lay all our cards on the table.

    David, the MSW program of 2 Alabama schools that I have had student interns with require course work in testing for the MSW degree. Maybe Alabama is a little ahead of the rest of the states in realizing that 90% of the tests that are given are, for the most part, self-intrepreting. After all, if you understand the Z-score (and how can you get out of grad school if you don't) you should be able to intrepret any test based upon the score of the client vis a vi the standards established by the testing instrument. I think Clinical pysych's mystique may be wearing thin!!!!!!

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    Howard Rodgers
     
  17. simon

    simon New Member

    Jack: I'm sorry Simon but what is obvious is that you stated that you gave clinical and administrative supervision to psychiatrists, psychologists, etc. This clearly means that you gave both types of supervision to all the staff members listed (don't take my word for it, go reread the posting itself).

    Reponse: Jack, I followed your advice, and reread my posting on 11/29 which clearly states that"... administratively AND/OR clinically supervising one hundred..."(Jack, do you see the word OR that you left out). Please let me know if you have any trouble in finding this word. I suggest that you go back and review my statement but PLEASE don't leave out critical words like OR because this is becoming an extreme waste of time.

    JACK: I don't care much about that though. I can chalk it up to a misplaced modifier during a late night web surfing expedition. After all, I didn't really think you were actually giving clinical supervision to the secretaries.

    RESPONSE: Obviously I inadvertently hit a tender spot by my comparisons of these professions resulting in this relentless attempt to negate me and what I have stated. What can I say?

    Jack: I am a bit surprised that you continue to refuse to describe your clinical background, degrees, schools, etc.

    Respond: Due to responses such as yours, I am reluctant to reveal any additional personal/professional information. I wish you well but believe it is time to move on for the sake of the other members of this thread. Take care.
     
  18. simon

    simon New Member

     
  19. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    You are so compassionate, moving on for the sake of others...
    Despite the fact that I have misquoted you a couple of times, the fact remains that you are on this forum giving educational/career advise regarding psychology degrees when you have no psychology degree yourself. You continue to present yourself as a knowledgable resource in this area but refuse to state your credentials. You say that this is because of "responses like mine" but I'm guessing that there's another reason. I could be wrong. After all, I've made mistakes in this thread and when they've been pointed out I've owned them. Show me I'm wrong now. I don't think you will though, I think you're afraid of the light. Maybe I've made mistakes in this thread, hell, maybe I've even been a jerk at times, but at least I'm not hiding in the shadows. Want to shut me up, Simon? Then come clean.
    Jack
     
  20. simon

    simon New Member

    Jack: You are so compassionate, moving on for the sake of others...
    Despite the fact that I have misquoted you a couple of times,

    Reponse: A couple of times?

    Jack: "...the fact remains that you are on this forum giving educational/career advise regarding psychology degrees when you have no psychology degree yourself."

    Reponse: Have'nt you been sharing your perceptions and giving advise re: Psychology without a degree in Psychology? Moreover, anyone can offer their opinions or perspectives on these threads whether or not they possess a degree.

    Jack:"...You continue to present yourself as a knowledgable resource in this area but refuse to state your credentials. You say that this is because of "responses like mine" but I'm guessing that there's another reason. I could be wrong. After all, I've made mistakes in this thread and when they've been pointed out I've owned them. Show me I'm wrong now. I don't think you will though, I think you're afraid of the light. Maybe I've made mistakes in this thread, hell, maybe I've even been a jerk at times, but at least I'm not hiding in the shadows. Want to shut me up, Simon? Then come clean.

    Response: The above response clearly indicates why I will not engage in any further discussion with you regarding this or any other topic. It is obvious from the challenge you issued above Jack that you were right about everything and you have won. I concede.
     

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