List of religious degree mills?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by jrman, Jun 16, 2010.

Loading...
  1. jrman

    jrman New Member

    Is their a list of religious degree mill here or elsewhere?

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. potpourri

    potpourri New Member

    John, I've noticed at least three different posts of yours in which you ask about religious institutions and about biblical counseling relating to accreditation.

    Please make an appointment to do an entrance interview.

    1. Why are you posting different posts about religious programs and you ask whether or not they are accredited religious programs (biblical counseling) and then recent one was this one asking for list of religious degree mills?
    2. What is the purpose of wanting to have a list of religious diploma mills?
    3. Is your glass half-empty or half-full?
    4. What is your goals in the next 3-5 years? Have you gone to college before, and if so, what courses did you take?
    5. Do you belong to a certain religious denomination / order and are you looking to get into ministry?
    6. Is there a particular budget that you want to work with to pursue a religious degree?


    I don't know who you think you're, but an entrance interview is needed in order to process your inquiry any further.
     
  3. jrman

    jrman New Member

    Entrance Interview with who? I attend a non denominational church. I have a diploma as Pharmacy Technician from a technical college. I just want to learn more about biblical studies and biblical counseling in an in a formal way (as I love independent study of the bible) and have heard there are a lot of religious diploma mills. Accredited or not I don't wont to waste my time. I have had friends and youth ask me for advice and as a Christian it would be nice to have the proper knowledge to help them as a lay counselor.

    John Runer
     
  4. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I don't know much about Christian degree mills. Somehow that seems like contradiction; why would a Christian institution offer fake degrees? I'm sure there are some, I just don't understand the motivation. I've seen a couple that offer doctoral degrees that are bogus, but they don't try to pass them off as legitimate, so I don't think they qualify as mills.

    I can tell you of two schools that I know are not mills. Anderson University and Liberty University are two great Christian institutions that offer online studies.
     
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    PS. Put your posts in bold and the crazy links will not appear.
     
  6. jrman

    jrman New Member

    [/B]Thanks Michael! I will use bold. On the internet in general I have heard of schools saying they are "religious" to sell degrees and it is really sad. Thank you to everyone here for your time and knowledge. I am just searching for a good education not a title (it seams like a degree would give me the best practical knowledge of biblical counseling principles). As a Christian, disabled father and husband with limited income I want with to be sure that "free" or "low tuition" is still a biblical education that helps me gain wisdom.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I think that you may be struggling with a terminology problem. You see, with a degree mill degree you're not only not going to get a good education, you're not going to get any education at all. If you want an inexpensive, quality education then you might want to consider this school:

    South African Theological Seminary
     
  8. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator




    I don't think you are going to find a regionally accredited school that offers free or almost free degrees. Unfortunately, it's expensive to put something like that out so they usually can't offer it for free. There are a number of ministries that offer good Bible teaching online. Much of what Chuck Smith teaches is available online, he's the guy who founded Calvary Chapel. Here's a link to his archives: Pastor Chuck Smith - Through The Bible C2000 Series You won't find much better Bible teaching than this.
     
  9. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I also know that there are things like this: www.freebiblecollege.com Free Courses also low-cost accredited courses. Earn your B.A. degree Maybe this is what you are talking about. Don't know much about them but their doctrine appears to be solid. They claim to offer certification that will allow you to become ordained as a minister.

    Is this a legit school? Don't know. It is possible that they are offering this sort of thing as a service to everyone and a ministry, and that's their only motivation. Again, don't know. You should investigate something like this thoroughly before you sign up. Please note that I am not recommending this school, I'm using it as an example.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2010
  10. emmzee

    emmzee New Member

  11. potpourri

    potpourri New Member

    The reason why I had indicated an entrance interview (asking questions) was because you have posted three different posts one asking about degrees in biblical counseling, one on accredited religious schools, and this last post where you are asking for a list of religious degree mills. It all seems like a contradiction and it just didn't make sense why you wouldn't want to get an accredited religious degree, or at least one that would be legit.

    Why would you specifically ask for a list of religious degree mills? It makes it sound like you were possibily contemplating finding a school that you pay for a degree and they just send it to you. That's why I was hesitant and I'm not speaking for other members of this forum, but I think most would agree with me, and that's why some would be very reluctant to answer your question.

    Our purpose on this forum is to help people to find legitimate or accredited schools to consider for others to help with their education. Religion is a very controversial thing in and of itself. There are some here that would have differences as far as beliefs, and their interpretation of what would be considered legit or prudent.

    Since you have indicated that you're an independent Christian then Liberty University would probably be a good fit. It's accredited and legitimate. If you're looking for free education and so forth then NationsUniversity is a possibility. However, with NationsUniversity you will find unless they become accredited that the degree will have limited utility just like countless others that many of the religious colleges and universities aren't accredited. You may also want to consider Louisiana Baptist University. This school has been respected by many independent bible groups and this could also be a possibility, however, the school isn't accredited and that would be an issue as far as utility of the degree.

    I would simply stay away from those religious colleges and universities that just sell a degree. That's why I honestly don't understand why you would put this thread together "List of religious degree mills?" It makes the motive somewhat suspicious and not trying to judge you or anything but just don't understand why you would make that post when you had other posts that seemed legit and that had merit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2010
  12. DegreeDazed

    DegreeDazed Member

    The guy asks an honest question and you attack him? How could anyone have nefarious intentions with a list of bad schools? I think he wanted the list to know what to avoid. He probably asked a couple of times because he never got the information he was looking for. You need to chill.
     
  13. potpourri

    potpourri New Member

    I never specifically attacked this person. I was simply stating that it was somewhat suspicious that they had wanted a list of religious degree mills. I never made it out that they were specifically going to pursue getting a diploma from a mill or made any accusation just said that it was suspicious in nature because of the thread title.

    I don't see what I have posted as an attack. And for you to say that I need to chill is disrespectful in my opinion. I had asked him legitimate questions with regard to this situation. Some of the posts don't get answered but the posts that this person had entered were answered and so when you see someone asking for a list of religious degree mills that does make you somewhat suspicious. But, I never accused this person of wanting to do so. I'm simply pointing out to them why some would be hesitant to answer the question, or consider it suspicious.

    Also, the list of religious degree mills could go either way. One could use the list as a way to avoid going to these schools. Others could use the list as a means to contact those schools to get a diploma in that fashion as well so this could be interpreted two different ways. So I think the intention of the person was probably ok. But, one could also argue about the actual title of the thread so that was what I was trying to point out to them and I don't think I was making any kind of accusation or attack. I simply was pointing out that some could interpret it differently and that is why soem would be hesitant in answering this thread simply because of the title of it.

    I don't understand why you would consider this an attack? You have misinterpreted me. I'm trying to help someone, and just giving constructive feedback which my intention was never an attack. So can you please tell me where I actually attacked this person or accused them? I was simply stating that it could be considered suspicious by purely the title of this thread.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2010
  14. jrman

    jrman New Member

    Potpourri, thank you I understood where you were coming from and you never attacked me. My Pharmacy Technician Diploma has been called equivalent to and Associates Degree, too much Education, in Idaho anyway and even useless by some employers in the past. A mine and a factory both actually started me years ago at a higher rate of pay in a lab and as a machine operator because of it! Education accredited or not regardless of cost as long as it is earned/real is never a waste of time. I am simply looking for bible based education and thankful that we do have freedom of religion in the United States.

    This is a great forum and I am glad to be here where others are also seeking to learn more about their individual academic interests. Like all of you I think diploma mills are despicable!!

    Thanks again to all of you,

    John Runer
     
  15. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    No. It would be impossible to create a complete list of degree mills and then keep it up-to-date, since these things appear and dissappear every day.

    My own instinct is to treat all unaccredited religious schools as presumptive mills, until I have some convincing reason to think otherwise.



    Perhaps the same reason why the proprietors of secular mills do it? To make lots of money with a simple online business? (Where else can you legally entice perfect strangers to send you thousands of dollars in exchange fora worthless piece of paper? DL is a con-man's dream!) So that they can claim a phony university affiliation enabling them to parade around as great scholars, educators and authorities? Vanity, grand ecclesiastical-titles and pompous degrees are often bound tightly together.

    (I agree with you that it is ironic.)

    Degree mills are especially common and pervasive in the field of religion because of the existence of court-ordered religious exemptions. In just about every state, schools that teach religious subjects are exempt from state higher-education licensing requirements. So it's generally legal to run any kind of religious degree mill, just so long as it sticks to awarding degrees in religion. There's no government oversight or interference at all.

    The cutting-edge in degree-mill-science right now is counseling programs. Counseling is obviously a big part of a clergyman's duties and an integral part of religious educationx. So it typically falls under the religious exemption umbrella. But once students buy... er, earn their shiny doctorate in 'Biblical counseling' or 'pastoral counseling' or whatever they choose to call it, they proceed to set out their shingles and start their practice as psychological professionals (some of them even sport white coats!) while dodging all that annoying psychology licensing stuff. Sheltering helping-professions educationx and practice under religious exemptions is a burgeoning area of quasi-medical quackery as we speak.

    It isn't just Christians. We see this happening quite often with traditional Indian ayurvedic medicine. It is mostly Christians doing it, in large part because Christians are the majority religion here in the United States. But these kind of temptations are equal opportunity.

    It's interesting that a great deal of this seems to be happening at the theologically conservative end of the Protestant spectrum where loose organization and independent congregations are common. It seems far less common in the Roman Catholic world and among the more hierarchical Protestant denominations where church organizations have established clearer educational requirements for their clergy.
     
  16. DegreeDazed

    DegreeDazed Member

    Read your posts, they are rude. No disrespect to you intended. I'm not here to debate you, so I will not reply again. But let me repeat, chill dude. I'm sure I will get some long, accusatory reply from you but I will not be reading it. Consider my words, dismiss them if you wish.
     
  17. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Wow, thanks Bill. That was a good education for me. One that I wish we all didn't need to know about. Millists are ugly, but doing it in the name of, and hiding under, a religious umbrella makes it especially ugly. Didn't know all of that and I'm sorry that I now do.
     
  18. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Bill, one thing about that though. I'm not sure that millists, who's whole motive is for profit, would offer a free degree. Don't you think? So the degrees that the OP is asking about might not fit the description you gave.
     
  19. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Millists' motive isn't always profit. Particularly with the religious mills, they often want to be the great evangelists, to say nothing of appearing as the great educators and theological authorities.

    Ego can drive it, not just money.

    There's also the back-door into unlicensed clinical practice aspect that I already mentioned.
     
  20. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    And you might need to cool off a bit yourself. We have so many spammers and degree mill shills peppering this site with advertising (most of which you never see) that it's perfectly reasonable to me to suspect that someone is asking for a list for advertising purposes. Long ago I lost track of the number of times I've deleted links to degree mills because we don't want this board to become an advertising venue for degree mills. Under the wrong circumstances I wouldn't even allow such a list to appear. If someone wants to ask about a specific "school" we're happy to allow that conversation to occur. However, there will be no link to that school in the thread. This may be a bit inconvenient for people who then have to turn around and google the entity to learn something about it but that's the way it is.
     

Share This Page