Las Vegas shootings

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Kizmet, Oct 2, 2017.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  2. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  3. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Or a man's barber.
     
  4. jhp

    jhp Member

  5. jhp

    jhp Member

  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  7. jhp

    jhp Member

    It made me smile, but not that funny. A bit forced with the laugh track.

    Total crime per 1000 people
    USA: 41.29 (22nd in the world)
    Netherlands: 88.11 (ranked 9th in the world)

    The Dutch are known for rape, drugs, and software theft in law enforcement.


    (Source: UNODC)
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I hate to break this to you, but you can't legislate morality, and you certainly can't legislate good/evil or mental illness. If someone wants to kill a large number of people, there is absolutely no need for firearms, I thought we had learned that from 9/11, the truck attacks in Europe, and the knife attacks in China. Stephen Paddock owned 2 airplanes; if he wanted to, he could have loaded up one of them with aviation fuel and crashed it into the concert crowd, which would have killed a hell of a lot more people than 59.

    A FANTASTIC start to addressing gun violence would be to vigorously enforce the bazillion gun laws we already have in place. More gun laws on top of what already exist would do N-O-T-H-I-N-G but punish law-abiding gun owners, who, by definition, don't break the law.

    The number of those killed (50+) in Las Vegas is shocking and tragic, but how about 500+ people shot and killed? A lot more shocking and tragic, right? Well, that's the amount of people (514) who have been shot and killed in Chicago alone so far this year.

    FIVE HUNDRED FOURTEEN.

    But, because the victims are almost exclusively poor and black, killed by people who are also poor and black, in a city that's been under Democrat control for 50+ years, the media completely ignores the problem. It's positively disgusting. If Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the rest of the race hustlers were really concerned about their people, they would be raising holy hell about this literal slaughter in the streets. But, since there's no money in that, they remain appallingly silent.

    There's a Federal program called Project Exile that was funded initially by the NRA, where Federal agents from the BATF are assigned to a city police department (only at the invitation of the host city), and are on-call for crimes involving guns. When someone is arrested for a firearms charge, the on-call BATF Agent is called, and if there's a Federal violation (which can be as simple as a convicted felon in possession of a firearm), the BATF assumes jurisdiction, and the suspects are transferred to the Federal court system, where sentences are much longer than in state court.

    The initial program started in Richmond, Virginia, and has expanded to other cities, but Chicago is not one of them. If you commit a crime with a firearm, you should be locked-up for 5-10 years; do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not expect probation, parole, early release, or good time credit. That's essentially what Project Exile does, and lo & behold, it's had a dramatic effect everywhere it's been fully implemented.

    So, my solution? Harsh punishment for those who use firearms in the commission of crimes, no exceptions. 5-10 years in prison, with 15-20 more if you get caught again, is a great motivator to not repeat past mistakes.

    https://www.styleweekly.com/richmond/in-just-three-years-project-exile-has-startled-critics-and-supporters-with-a-message-so-strong-it-makes-criminals-drop-guns-now-everyone-fro/Content?oid=1390279
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    OK, so why don't the existing laws get enforced?
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    If we can't legislate morality, then why even legislate where people go to the bathroom (which I believe you supported)? How many people have been sexually assaulted by transgender people or even people pretending to be transgender vs. the number of people who have been shot? If someone wants to rape someone, then they're just going to do it with or without access to bathrooms. Pedophiles mostly go after children they know.

    I own multiple guns, by the way.

    The media ignores the murders in Chicago? Who doesn't know about the high number of murders in Chicago? Really? The media, however, will not cover most stories continuously for years. Even this shooting will leave the news cycle soon, and mass shootings won't be covered until another one happens.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2017
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Liberal and/or weak-willed prosecutors and judges.

    Massachusetts has what's called the Bartley-Fox law, which is supposed to be a mandatory one-year jail sentence for anyone carrying a handgun illegally. It's one of the biggest jokes in Massachusetts CJ history, because I NEVER.....not even one time.....have seen someone sentenced to ANY time for a first-offense carrying a handgun unlawfully, never mind a year.

    Prosecutors plea-deal everything to reduced charges that have no jail time, and even when people are convicted of gun-related crimes, the judges just let them go, anyway. It's literally a revolving door, and what kind of message does that send to the criminals who use guns in violent crimes?

    As I said, if you use a gun in a violent crime, away you to go to prison for 5-10 years. That will positively take the starch out of anyone's sails, as well as send a strong message to those who consider trying it themselves. It works, Project Exile has proven it.
     
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    You're comparing apples to orangutans, I have absolutely no idea why you decided to interject a bathroom topic into a gun discussion. Completely irrelevant.

    Yes, they do.

    Are you going to tell me with a straight face that if even half the victims of Chicago gun violence were white and middle/upper class, that it wouldn't be the daily leading headline, as well as a national uproar?
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Well, we know that's not going to happen. The prisons are already over-filled. So your answer then is to do nothing?
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Did I say my answer was to do nothing? No, I don't believe I did.

    Wait, let me double-check.......nope, didn't say anything even close to that.

    Prison "overcrowding" is highly subjective, and often simply means that the population exceeds what is recommended by the correctional accreditors. It's also very much on a state-by-state basis; Illinois recently closed one of their state prisons because it was hardly ever more than 50% capacity. It could have easily been kept viable with out-of-state prisoners sent there on interstate compacts, but again, weak-willed and/or liberal judges don't want to send prisoners very far from home.

    Additionally, I don't think many people would object to early release for white collar and other criminals who haven't harmed anyone in order to make room for those who use guns in crime. And, as a last resort, building more prisons is a concept that's not exactly unpopular with the public, provided they aren't built near them.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    You're right. You didn't say that. You also didn't give an constructive answer to my question so I just connected the dots. You want to blame weak-willed or liberal judges . . . I don't know if every judge in the country is weak-willed or liberal but regardless of that, blaming the judges is not the same as proposing a solution. The judges are who they are. Given that, what do you want to do about the problem?
     
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I think it's a fair comparison. The bathroom debate is supposed to be about safety, but there is currently no widespread issue with crossdressers raping women and children in public bathrooms. On the other hand, thousands of people are shot. You say that we should enforce the gun laws we already have. Well, we already have laws against sexual assaults and child molestation. Criminals just ignore gun laws? Well, rapists are also criminals, and the laws don't stop them.

    Women are much more likely to be raped on college campuses than by some crossdresser in a public bathroom. Children are much more likely to be molested by a relative, priest, or teacher than some crossdresser in a public bathroom. The arguments for bathroom bills fall apart when you look at arguments against gun laws. It's all just illogical.

    The rate at which white people are killed by firearm in the U.S. is pretty high compared to other developed nations, but I don't see that in the news every day. But, you do have a point. Since white people make up the majority of TV viewers, the news will show things that are concerning to white people. It has everything to do with race and nothing to do with political ideology. Conservatives don't really care about the murders in Chicago or Baltimore. Those cities are only brought up to score points in debates.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2017
  18. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Good God, are you not reading what I'm writing? Did I use too many words?

    One more time, this time I'll list everything with an explanation, hopefully this will do the trick.

    1. Prosecutors and especially judges need to grow a set of cojones and do their jobs. When it comes to gun crimes, stop the plea deals, reduced sentences, probation instead of incarceration, and send these criminals to prison.

    2. Those same people need to worry about their responsibilities, not anyone else's. It's not the job of prosecutors or judges to be concerned with the prison population, that's up to the sheriff and those in charge of the department of correction or Federal BOP. Prosecute gun criminals, sentence them to prison if found guilty, and let the sheriff or DOC people worry about overcrowding. Trust me, they'll find room or make room.

    3. End parole, good time, and every other form of early release for gun crimes. If you're sentenced to 5 years for a gun crime, you do 5 years, not a single day less.

    4. Stop the bullshit with more gun laws. We have more than enough on the books, anything new is just going to punish law-abiding gun owners, who, and it's baffling to me that so many people can't grasp this concept, by definition don't break the law.

    Is that clear enough, or are you going to ask me again what I think should be done?
     
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    This writer agrees completely with Bruce's analysis, especially with point #4.
     

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