Kennedy Western University ???

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Veteran101, Jun 14, 2003.

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  1. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Right. There may be a very, very occasional instance where an admittedly deficient school (not, of course, a fraudulent one, ever) may be the only way ahead for pursuing a legitimate educational end--in full awareness that the deficiency is there but outweighed by the value of the goal. I would think that's quite rare.
    To monopolists like Derek Bok and the cheery folks at Monthly Review Press, all DL equals mills and that dread evil "commercialization". (Why do they sell their books, then?) For an advocate of a mill to claim the category umbrella of non-traditionalism as a protection is either meretricious or obtuse.
     
  2. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    It confirms nothing other than HR people don't know squat about accreditation or how to check out a school. It would be interesting to contact the listed companies, explain K-W's unaccredited status and history of state-shopping for the most lenient regulations, and then see if they would accept and/or pay for a K-W degree.


    Bruce [/B][/QUOTE]

    Bruce:

    With all due repect, Who made you the degree judge, and police. You are willing to devote your time to call HR people, and explain to them why you think KW, and others are a substandard school, or degree mill. You also mentioned contacting the advertising agents that KW uses, I think that is way overboard. Do you have a personal reason for your contempt against KW?

    I was duped by the KW advertisement, and mislead as to the utility of the degree. I blame KW for being misleading, but I did do allot of work, and I learned allot from writing the final project.

    Do I think KW is near the quality of an traditional RA degree? NO

    Do I think taking all clep, and dante test, and getting a degree without attending classes from one of the big three is of the quality of a traditional RA degree? NO Again!

    While I agree that a degree from the big three may be better than KW, you can't promote the other method, and dog KW when the difference is all about accredidation. In doing this you, and others are promoting your subjective opinions that may not be shared by HR people.

    If someone calls to tell me that a mechanic down the road is not certified, and he is a crook then I tend to believe them. I may later here that the mechanic fixed a car that had already been to five certified mechanics that could not find the problem. What I am getting at is that if I should not pass judgement on the mechanic without checking him out for myself. A HR person should not pass judgement without checking someone out also, but you may cloud his judgement based on your opinion. The HR person has the responsibility to check out a person in full. This should be based on work record, education, etc.. If you go around calling on all HR personel, and advertisers to boycott certain schools then I think that is wrong. That is my humble opinion.

    Regards,

    Scott
     
  3. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    First off, I don't have the time or the inclination to call any HR people about Kennedy-Western. What I wrote was that it would be interesting if someone were to call the HR people of companies that K-W lists as paying for and/or accepting their degrees. That someone won't be me, but if it were, I would simply ask them if they were aware that K-W was unaccredited, illegal in Oregon, and has moved across state lines 3 times. That isn't what I think of them, those are just facts.

    And, you confused me with Chip in regards to contacting K-W advertising agents, I didn't write that (though it might not be a bad idea).

    Then you, of all people, should understand why people need to see through all the slick marketing & misleading statements of a lot of unaccredited schools.

    To answer your question, I have nothing against K-W per se, but I have a huge problem with the general practice of unaccredited schools making misleading statements about accreditation, utility of their degrees, etc., and the reason is simple. If the public ever comes to equate unaccredited/sub-standard schools with Distance Learning, then we might as well shut down this board and find new hobbies.


    Bruce
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I believe that a percentage of the general public does equate distance learning with degree mills. I believe that it is getting better though rather than worse at least as far as the acceptance of accredited distance learning programs. Although I must admit being rather bothered reading some of the posts on the K-W forum that seemed to equate unaccredited with distance learning.
     
  5. fnhayes

    fnhayes New Member

    Forgot to mention earlier that I worked for The Open Polytechnic of NZ (TOPNZ), formerly the Technical Correspondence Institute,
    on-campus for 24 years and off-campus for 12 years. TOPNZ -
    www.topnz.ac.nz - has been by far the largest DL educational organisation in NZ since 1947.
    TOPNZ offers a range of degrees by DL, as well as a huge number of accredited tertiary qualifications, all within the National Qualifications Framework.
    The last DL course that I wrote whilst on-campus was an environmental one on wetlands - types, management, plants. birds, wildlife, creation, control, legal aspects, values, etc. :)
     
  6. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    I had never heard of K-W, until I came to DegreeInfo.com. :)

    Yesterday, I met a K-W graduate (in person) for the first time. When he said that he was a K-W graduate, all the things that I've read at DegreeInfo.com began to flood through my mind, sort of like a deathbed experience. :p

    When I said, "K-W isn't accredited, is it?" He replied, "No, it isn't accredited, but my employer recoginizes it and I get paid extra for having it." He is a police officer. Needless to say, I was dumbfounded.

    I'm still dumbstruck. :eek:
     
  7. kf5k

    kf5k member

    Bruce:

    With all due repect, Who made you the degree judge, and police. You are willing to devote your time to call HR people, and explain to them why you think KW, and others are a substandard school, or degree mill. You also mentioned contacting the advertising agents that KW uses, I think that is way overboard. Do you have a personal reason for your contempt against KW?

    I was duped by the KW advertisement, and mislead as to the utility of the degree. I blame KW for being misleading, but I did do allot of work, and I learned allot from writing the final project.

    Do I think KW is near the quality of an traditional RA degree? NO

    Do I think taking all clep, and dante test, and getting a degree without attending classes from one of the big three is of the quality of a traditional RA degree? NO Again!

    While I agree that a degree from the big three may be better than KW, you can't promote the other method, and dog KW when the difference is all about accredidation. In doing this you, and others are promoting your subjective opinions that may not be shared by HR people.

    If someone calls to tell me that a mechanic down the road is not certified, and he is a crook then I tend to believe them. I may later here that the mechanic fixed a car that had already been to five certified mechanics that could not find the problem. What I am getting at is that if I should not pass judgement on the mechanic without checking him out for myself. A HR person should not pass judgement without checking someone out also, but you may cloud his judgement based on your opinion. The HR person has the responsibility to check out a person in full. This should be based on work record, education, etc.. If you go around calling on all HR personel, and advertisers to boycott certain schools then I think that is wrong. That is my humble opinion.

    Regards,

    Scott [/B][/QUOTE]

    Scott
    I appreciate the fact that you have taken the time to offer an opinion about K-W. My view has been that K-W is probably just above Hamilton and Trinity, who are full blown degree mills. Since you have first hand knowledge, would you mind describing how adequately K-W checks out the previous work and academic work of a potential student? Is the new work enough to challenge and test a student? I ask this not to challenge you, but to learn facts from someone with direct knowledge. Any additional info. you have and would like to give would be of interest to me.
     
  8. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    James:

    Here is my description of the KW process.

    Admissions - Very liberal, I have an associates from an RA school, and I provided a copy of my degree, and all the certificates I have from seminars, and CEU classes. I provided copies of state licenses, and certifications, and a resume. As far as I know KW did not check all of these out. I may be wrong.

    Courses - I had 6 courses in which I did all the studying on my own from the books, and I had to take 6 final exams that were proctored. The exams were very hard, and some in my opinion were poorly written.

    Final project - 75 pages min. for the BS degree. This required allot of work, and I would say I learned the most from doing this.

    Now, My problem with KW is not the above. My problem is the high pressure sales type admissions, the fact that I never heard of them moving from state to state to keep legal, and CA students are not admitted even though they are in CA. KW is a for profit school, and I was not told this either. KW does allot of marketing, and I am sure they are making good money, so why not pursue DETC or at least become CA approved. That bothers me, and I did not know any of this before finding degreeinfo.com
    I am worried that if some law changes that KW will just shut down, and I will have a worthless degree ( some of you say that anyway).

    I did not know any of this when I started, and paid in full. I have my own business, and did not have an employer to approve or pay. I wanted to get a BSEE online, and that was the only school I could find. I may find if I ever get in the job market that this was a true waste. I think KW is more about making money than providing education, but I think some of the criticism of unaccredited schools goes a little overboard here. I wish schools like CCU that change to receive accredidation the best, and wish KW would do the same.

    Scott
     
  9. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    You're the first K-W graduate I've ever encountered that didn't have to take just 5 courses for the Bachelor's degree.

    Either K-W is tightening their standards, or you had to work extra-hard. :rolleyes:


    Bruce
     
  10. kf5k

    kf5k member

    The proctored exams are good as Is the final project. In your case 6 courses may be enough to equal the degree, but some are concerned that they also require 5-6 from almost anyone. K-W is a problem in that they do enough to get past some hurdles, and not enough to get past others. They have moved around too much and have not been rigorous enough on admissions. They must at some point, I believe, increase the level of new learning. Without any doubt THEY MUST stay put in Wyoming, and work with the Dept. of Education to improve quality and the negative perception they have created. By the way I've not called them a degree mill. I see them above Hamilton and Trinity. I've always liked CCU and hope K-W will go that route.
     
  11. I generally don't comment on spelling/typos.. it's generally not relevant to the real issue, and tends to make one look like an obnoxious ass, anyway. But I can't resist observing that our resident K-W apologists all seem to make "allot" of the same spelling errors. Hmmmm..
     
  12. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Dennis:

    First, I am not a KW apologist. If you can follow the context you will see that.

    Second, in my mind you did just become an obnoxious ass!

    There are many on this forum who spell things wrong, and use bad grammer. I will just join the crowd. Did you notice I put a comma before my conjunction?

    I tend not to run a spelling or grammer check before I submit in a forum or chat room, but most people are not that anal and will look past. I will try to be more careful in the future.

    Naaaa I probably want.
     
  13. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Why not "stay put" in California, where they are actually located? Oh, right, because they can't/won't meet even the minimal standards required for California approval.
     
  14. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    I must disagree. Although everyone makes the occasional typo and errors in grammar or syntax, when an individual continually espouses the quality of his or her education and degree, yet, in the process of doing so he or she copiously and consistently mangles the spelling of extremely basic words and commits egregious grammatical errors, it is indeed relevant. :rolleyes:
     
  15. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    I seem to remember that you are not to start a sentence with but, but I may be wrong.

    I am sure I know you guys. You are the smart asses that sat in front of me in elementary. I used to thump your ears right? Still pissed because you couldn't hit the ball, and the girls didn't like you. Get over it. :D

    Why go there? That is the problem with some. You can't have a discussion without whining and getting personal.
     
  16. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    You are wrong.

    Thanks for the laugh. You managed to conjure up an image of a K-W class reunion where all the guys are thumping each other’s ears and reminiscing about elementary school when the girls used to like them. :D :D :D
     
  17. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Want what?
     
  18. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Won't want to spin "allot" of time spell checking!

    :D :D :D :D :D parden da pun:cool:
     
  19. c.novick

    c.novick New Member

    K-W Class Reunion?

    Would it be legal to hold one in Oregon? California? N.J?


    :confused:
     
  20. I doubt it.. usually, I sat towards the back of the room.

    That said-- and I know this'll absolutely shock and surprise you-- I don't especially care whether you think I'm an ass. I simply observed that several K-W apologists seemed to show the exact same spelling anomaly. Those of us who spend "a lot" of time deciding whether documents are what they seem to be might think of two possibilities:
    a) You're all the same person.
    b) By incredible coincidence, two people with a rather unusual fixation on "allot" log on to a relatively obscure message board and post "dueling banjo" messages as alumni of a relatively obscure non-school. I'm not a statistician, so I'll not venture a guess as to that probability.

    But that this observation struck what's apparently a sore spot with you is particularly amusing. Walk it off, guy.

    Two flaming responses to acomparatively benign observation? Who's whining and getting personal, again?

    Hello, Black Pot.. This is the Black Kettle.
     

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