Kennedy-Western University is moving towards accreditation in response to the new reg

ABSOLUTELY! This is the theme of my post that was posted at about the same time as your post.

 

Bill,

Bingo. I think you must have read my mind as the nascent thought was forming and expressed it before I could...

The life experience of the individual students could vary, but it almost looks "negotiable"...

Dave

 

I applied within the last 6 months as background research for a degree fraud audit I was going to undertake. They waived half of my DBA requirements based on my CLAIM of previous training and I was told I would be able to have my doctorate within a year if I really pushed, 18 months on the very oustide.

I have a pile of documents supporting this in my audit files. When I get some free time, I'll post them in detail and chronological order how it all went.

 

That would be very interesting...

What I don't understand is why organizations like KWU don't require an experiential thesis to substantiate the waivers of coursework. These would be easy to write from daytimers, seminar notes, and minimal references from the students' company library, etc. Such papers could be evaluated (i.e., read and filed) and would serve as justification for waiving the classes without really impacting the KWU sales approach.

Dave

 

My bottom line on KWU is that they use marketing tactics that seem intended to deceive people into believing that there is academic rigor where there is not. This apparent act of deception on the part of KWU is what places them into the diploma mill category, IMHO. Auditguy's story is just another example. These deceptive marketing practices may rise to the level of legal fraud. I'm not a lawyer or a police detective but if I was the owner of KWU I would be very concerned for my personal freedom should the authorities decide to investigate.

 

I believe it has to do with their marketing approach. Today they can definitively say, "Pay the $X,000 today and you will only need complete five classes to complete your degree." The glorious goal is clear. Paying the money is the hard part in the mind of most candidates at that point.

Using your proposed approach they would instead have to say, "Fill out these forms then when they're approved we'll get your money." In that kind of telemarketing sales environments, it is critical to close the sale ASAP. Not getting a close until after the candidate does a far amount of work would probably kill their close rate. The mind of most candidates probably wouldn't see the goal clearly.

"I took that seminar so long ago, how can I remember?"
"Maybe they won't approve it anyway?"
"I padded those seminar hours and they'll probably catch me on it?"

The goal is relatively blurred.

 

Hi Ron A the audit guy.

You have gotten my attention. I think I will apply and have a few others to do the same thing from different locations. Do they require an application fee to evaluate? I would post the findings here and send them on to the FTC too. If they are not qualifying experience as credit and taking it on face value, then I have to wonder. I will be happy to eat my words. But, you do have to admit they have an impressive list of faculties. How does one go about finding out if these people actually work with KW. I am generally an optimist, so don't hate me.

Robbie

 

I have heard that someone was offered admitance to a KWU doctorate program and they had zero school degrees not even any college credits. All that they had was a Ph.D. diploma from a school listed in the diploma mill chapter of Bears' Guide and they had a lot of working experience. I would love to try myself but they won't talk to me because I live in the state that they actually operate from.

They didn't use to require an application fee, IIRC.

 

IIRC - It was a $50 refundable fee for an evaluation. They had an online, self-evaluation calculator also at that time.

I ended my applications (It wasn't just KWU) when I had enough info to make recommendations to my employer as to the usefullness of such degrees and what our corporate policy should require. That was the purpose of the test.

I'm pretty certain that any faculty listed do work for KWU. Moonlighting for some extra $$ is pretty common in academia. Exactly how involved they are in the learning process is the question. I've always assumed them to be offsite per-student paper graders.

 

Any updates about KWU?
Is it still a degree mill?

 

FYI:
See link below. KW applied for RA accreditation under a new name, Warren National University.
http://www.codycafe.com/News/detail.asp?iData=6024&iCat=1529&iChannel=1&nChannel=News


Bill

 

Another change: it appears that Warren National, unlike KW, will not attempt to offer engineering degrees.

The list of WN academic programs and degrees is much shorter than the equivalent KW list. Currently WN only advertises the BS, MS, and DBA in Business Administration; the BS and MS in Computer Science and Management Information Systems; and the BS and MS in Health Administration.

The KW website still advertises BS, MS, and PhD degree programs in General Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Environmental Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, and Safety Engineering. However, it appears that these programs will not continue at WN. The KW degree programs in Quality Control and Criminal Justice will apparently be discontinued as well.

 

While my experience will be redundant, I will share anyway.

As part of my doctoral research, I paid my $50 to KW as a part of the process to get credits waived towards an MBA. I sent a one and a half page resume with boilerplate bullets and filled out an online form indicating I had been to at least 10 conferences and seminars. No details or proof were required to substantiate any of the info I sent. I was informed by KWU that I was qualified to skip seven courses and I could name which ones they were.

Learning is always a good thing. While one can learn things from KW courses, one can also learn things at the library, but it does not make a library and institution of higher learning.

If KW is not willing to subject its processes and procedures to recognized, legitimate audit, and further demonstrates the willy nilly practices of granting credit as they do, being designated as a Degree Mill is probably the best they could reasonably expect.

 

If you are a former student or graduate of Kennedy-Western, then this might be a good time to order some official transcripts for your personal files.

The handwriting on the wall says that KW, as we know it, is living on borrowed time. KW's owners are developing a new school, Warren National, that will be a candidate for regional accreditation. But it's not known whether WN will be a renamed KW, or whether WN will be an entirely new legal entity.

Current evidence suggests the latter. Neither the KW website nor the WN website make any acknowledgement whatsoever of the other school. Furthermore, KW representatives have refused to comment on the issue. The recent news about WN was apparently leaked by the accreditation agency (the North Central Association), rather than KW or WN.

But if WN is a new and distinct legal entity, then it may have no responsibility for maintaining historical KW student records. And in this case, it may become difficult to get such records after the lights go out at KW.

State-approved schools are usually required to provide alumni services even after they close. However, such rules are difficult to enforce. After the unaccredited, state-approved Columbia Pacific University closed in 2000, for example, all of their theses and dissertations were lost, even though California regulations require records maintenance for at least 50 years after closure. The remaining CPU records recently became available again, but only because concerned alumni formed a non-profit organization that managed to acquire them.

If you think you might need your KW records in 5 or 10 years, you should consider filing some copies away now. It's cheap insurance.

 

This raises another idea that amuses me greatly. That is should CalDog's scenario come to pass. (It seems very reasonable to me.) People can claim degrees from KWU and there will be no way to prove or disprove their claim. That means that people who never took a class at KWU can claim whatever degree they want and their claim will appear just as valid as a real KWU claim. All they have to do is leave their fake KWU papers out in the sun for a day or two to make them look old and they are just as good proof as the real KWU papers.

 

and about the same utility in academia