Kennedy-Western lawsuit

Would it be too much to ask, morleyl and Michael73, that you limit your comments in this thread to the topic of the Kennedy-Western lawsuit? If either of you wish to rehash other distance education topics, wouldn’t it be better to post your comments in an appropriately titled thread? Perhaps you might consider starting threads of your own to discuss the issues that interest you.

Thank you.

 

You've had a chance to say what you wanted and I have spoken my position, so I think that's about as far as we can go today. Let's move on.

 

lawsuit

Sorry Gus but our comments are on topic. The basis of our arguments form the basis of the lawsuit. The contention that Oregon does NOT have the right to infringe on the rights of others, or to claim that a legally obtained degree from one state consitutes a criminal act in Oregon.. I'm sorry that you were not able to follow that point. I brought up the recognition by the federal government to point out that Oregon is trumped by Federal law that says that any act by a federal agency on behalf of the federal government take priority over a states rights.

 

Re: lawsuit

Not all of them were, Michael73, but I'm glad you recognize the need.

So you think it is a free speech issue?

Uh, that's not necessarily a free speech issue. And, even if it were, not only states, but also counties and cities provide us with numerous examples in which a law may abridge free speech in order to protect the public good. For example, if I were to sing loudly in front of your house (in a public street) at 2:00 AM in the morning, what do you think takes precedence: my right to free speech or the public nuisance and disturbing the peace ordinances?

I'm sorry, but I am not familiar with any federal law stating "that any act by a federal agency on behalf of the federal government take priority over a states rights." Could you please share with the members of this forum which law, specifically, applies?

 

The supreme court ruled that freedom of speech was more than just speech, that it included expression as well.


As far as examples of federal agencies trumping state law I cite the ruling in Florida that made communities of 55 and older people legal. State law prohibited discrimination based on age, and these communities barred anyone under a certain age from living in them. The communities were challenged as violating the anti discrimination law, but HUD stepped in and ruled that the communities were OK, thus trumping the state law....

 

It is still a fraud. There is an implied warranty of merchantibility here. When someone presents a college degree, the presumption is that the person went through an academic course of study requisite to earning such a degree. Selling degrees and calling the process one that meets a "low standard" doesn't cut it. It's still cheating.

There comes a point when we're no longer talking about high or low standards, we're talking about whether or not the thing in question is what it purports to be. A degree from St. Regis is not a degree. Calling it one doesn't change that. It might fool some people, but that doesn't make it a real degree.

 

Hi Rich:

Logic dictates that I could not agree with you on this in anyway. If I get a degree from Thomas Edison based on several sources of credit you are saying its fraud. I am sure you would not say that but in summary thats what you are saying.

You keep referring to St. Regis and thats not what I am getting at. If you say that getting a degree based on some evaluation is fraud then its really difficult to have a constructive discussion with you.

As long as there is no misrepresentation of how the degree is earned then there can be no fraud. Evaluation says that you get academic credit for learning in a non-academic manner based on the nature of the learning and its comparable worth. Even the schools that grant 25% of total credit for a degree holds that principle.

Again your logic is saying that a degree earn with 25% work experience or whatever is only 75% degree and fraudulent

 

Re: Distance learning snobbery

This is news to me. Who in the United States has accepted degrees from the Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon ?

jon
---
asking lots questions today

 

Re: Re: Distance learning snobbery

I checked with some credential verification services that are members of ACE, and they verified that this school meets their requirements and the degrees are valid in the US, and accepted by INS and the State dept....

 

Re: Re: Re: Distance learning snobbery

You have not answered my question. Please name names.

And please read this.

 

I thought only one evaluation company did ACE evaluations....

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Distance learning snobbery

 

That still does not give anyone the right to speech that may be harmful to others. For example, inciting others to riot may be “freedom of expression” to you, but it still illegal.

What ruling was this? According to the Florida Commission on Human Relations, whose mission it is to enforce the Fair Housing Act, these communities were never illegal.

State law (in this case Florida Statute 760.23 Discrimination in the sale or rental of housing and other prohibited practices) does not mention age. Chapter 760, Florida Statutes, is the anti-discrimination law in Florida. It addresses the areas of employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap, national origin, age and marital status; and discrimination in housing based on race, color, national origin, sex, handicap, religion and familial status (notice that age it not a criteria). The Florida Fair Housing Act was passed by the Florida Legislature in 1983, and amended in 1989. It parallels the Federal Fair Housing Act (which also does not use age as a criteria). You are confusing the issue of familial status with that of age.

According to the Florida Commission on Human Relations, whose mission it is to enforce Chapter 760 of the Florida Statutes, this never occurred. If you wish, may verify this by calling the Florida Commission on Human Relations at (850) 488-7082. I did.

According to the Florida Commission on Human Relations, whose mission it is to enforce Chapter 760 of the Florida Statutes, this never occurred. If you wish, may verify this by calling the Florida Commission on Human Relations at (850) 488-7082. I did.

Both the State of Florida and Federal Fair Housing Acts allow for and specify the qualifying criteria as it pertains to an exemption concerning familial status (not age).

There is no question that Federal law may render a state statute unconstitutional. However, what you claimed is simply not true; an administrative decision or policy by a Federal agency (without a specific basis in law) cannot trump a state law. You claimed there was a Federal law “that says that any act by a federal agency on behalf of the federal government take priority over a states rights.”

Once again, what Federal law, specifically, states this?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distance learning snobbery

 

Hi all

The Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon appears to be a degree mill, although they are doing a pretty good job of flying under the radar so far. Is it possible people could fraudulently pass off the degree for a time? Sure. Will it happen for long? No. For those not up to speed on the Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon, check out the thread linked by Jon:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13336&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

 

Re: Re: Consistency

I think we agree that Oregon can say "if you want a job in Oregon State Govt. you have to have an accredited degree". I think your example bears that out.

But if we take your example and change it slightly to an undaunted traveler who shows up in Oregon with a drivers license from Lower Slobovia (which everyone "knows" isn't worth the cardboard it's printed on and represents a physical danger to everyone on the road due to the lack of real training), he can still rent a car in Oregon tooling about happily and it isn't a crime to state that he has a Lower Slobovian drivers license on his resume.

 

lawsuit

Oh by the way... I live in the city where the lawsuit took place. The point is that the ultimate exception ruling was made by HUD. A government agency....

 

I must point out, Michael73, that you should not quote without attribution. The words in bold above appeared in an article by Monica Bryant, that appeared in The Ocala Star Banner on September 14, 2003. Moreover, as you can see, the issue was familial status, not age.

This line, however, did not appear in the original article and appears to have been added by you (very sneaky!). It is however, irrelevant, as a HUD Administrative Law Judge (note the proper terminology) does not legislate, but instead interprets existing law (most notably the Fair Housing Act). Note that “either party - complainant or respondent - may cause the HUD-scheduled administrative proceeding to be terminated by electing instead to have the matter litigated in Federal court” (see here).

Now, where’s that Federal law that you claimed “says that any act by a federal agency on behalf of the federal government take priority over a states rights.”

 

Re: Re: Re: Consistency

But only for a year and then he must get an Oregon license: http://www.oregondmv.com/DriverLicensing/opv_internl.htm

Unless you establish residency (http://www.oregondmv.com/DriverLicensing/orres.htm).

So if you want to visit Oregon, no problem, BUT if you want to live and work in Oregon, then you must get a license.

If you want to live and work in Oregon, then abide by the Oregon laws.