Kennedy-Western Equals Degree Mill

Don't cry, Bill. All of your statements were profound, its just that the pin ball analogy grabbed my attention.

 

Thanks Russell, I just went and quoted my own famous line myself and now I feel much better. We can just call it mental masturbation.

----------------------------------------------------
"The view of the future is clearest seen using the focus of the past."
Huffman 2002

 

For historical reference, here's a thread about an article in "The Austrailian" that lists K-W as a degree mill.

http://www.degreeinfo.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5910

 

What Proof?

What is the exact proof that the Austrailan can state to substantiate is claim? K-W is a fully leagal US based school, who can legally confer degrees internationally.


Please Read the 8th Bullet Down:

http://www.k12.wy.us/web/faq.html#kw

or:

http://www.kw.edu/recognition.asp

Kennedy-Western is a fully legal, state approved post secondary educational institution, protected by the consitution. And as such, is able to confer degrees. Until the government changes its position to allow states to approve and liscence schools, the school is operating legally, and it's degrees are equally as legal (outside of OR &NJ), as any US based RA School.

 

Can a school be both legal and a degree mill? Certainly:

California Pacifica University
Southwestern University
Southland University
Lasalle University
Thomas A. Edison College
Columbia State University

All of these schools were legally licensed. All of their proprietors were convicted of crimes related to running these shams. (The Feds got 'em in most cases.)

Relying on the legal status of a school isn't enough. As someone else (Bill?) said, accreditation sets the quality control standards and functions for universities in the U.S. Accredited schools can be assumed to be operating at a sufficient standard. However, with unaccredited schools, the burden of proof shifts to the school to demonstrate that it operates a quality program despite its lack of accreditation. Some California-Approved schools seem to do this. The oft-cited and unaccredited Bob Jones University also seems to do this. Kennedy-Western University does not. KW-U issuing degrees is legal. So is not deploying your parachute during a skydive. But that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

Re: What Proof?

Legal does NOT mean good. K-W is a horrible joke. If you would really like to understand why then I suggest you reread this whole thread. The Austrailian has access to all the information that we've discussed and they have come to the same conclusion, K-W is a degree mill. K-W degree requirements do not meet the standard for degree requirements. K-W is legal is some states and illegal in other states but remains a horrible joke in all states.

 

FYI

I found the information on Private School Licensing (Colleges and Universities) in Wyoming pretty interesting,
http://soswy.state.wy.us/cgi-win/sscgi_3.exe?4141

Some Excerpts:

Section 1. Purposes.

(f) "Recognized and Accepted Accreditation Agency" includes those agencies recognized by the United States Department of Education through National Advisory Committee on Accreditation and Institutional Eligibility and the Council of Higher Education Accreditation. If the post secondary education institution originates in a foreign country, accreditation recognized and accepted by that country's Department of Education or equivalent agency is required.
Licensure is not required once accreditation is achieved from a recognized and accepted accreditation agency and documentation of such is provided to the office of the Secretary of State and the Department.

So if a school is licensed by the state of Wyoming it is a good bet that it doesn't have "Recognized and Accepted" Accreditation.


Section 6. Licensing Application Procedure.

Application for a license (initial and renewal) shall be made in a form specified by the Department. The applicant must submit the following:
(snip)
(i) A description of instructional methods and an instructional outline used by the institution, including methods for assigning, monitoring and evaluating work, awarding credit, and granting degrees.

I would love to see that -

(snip)
(n) Institutions granting bachelors, masters, and doctorate degrees shall provide verification that not less than fifty percent (50%) of instructors employed by the institution have received a masters or doctorate degree in their respective field of study from a college or university accredited by a regional accrediting association recognized by the United States Department of Education.

The school has to have at least 50% RA Instructors.

Section 8. Minimum Standards.
(snip)
(g) Utilize no advertising which tends to mislead students or falsify information regarding job placement or accreditation. If a post secondary education institution wishes to refer to the fact that it is licensed in "the State of Wyoming," it shall refer to the fact only in the following phraseology: "Licensed by the State of Wyoming under W.S. 21-2-401 through 21-2-407."

That job placement thing could be a problem......

(h) A school licensed under this Article can neither claim nor advertise to prospective or enrolled students that it is accredited in the United States unless the named accrediting association, commission or other entity is approved by the United States Department of Education or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation.

So of course they don't claim accreditation.



TaneaG

 

Re: FYI

It depends upon your definition. The regulation you cited says that at least half of their faculty must have an accredited master's or doctorate. So even more could have non-accredited terminal degrees because some could have accredited master's and unaccredited doctorates.

 

Re: FYI

Excellent point!

If RJT works for K-W then they would be breaking the law since he sometimes says "State Approved in Wyoming".

 

KW Exposed!

Many thanks to the folks on this thead and others. I've made the decision continue my D/L studies at an accredited institution vs. Non. I've only a small bit of course work remaining with KW, however I'm late in delivering. They will want more money outta me before delivery of what I'm now confident is a near worthless shred of tree-pulp.

Thoughts?

 

Re: KW Exposed!

You seem to be facing a sad and difficult decision. The utility of an unaccredited degree is minimal. Getting any value out of it is very dependent on your situation. For example a few of the mitagating factors might be,
1. If you already have an RA/DETC degree(s) (or the foreign equivalent)
2. If you have a lot of good experience in your desired career
3. If you already meet the minimum educational requirement for the position that you may seek
4. If you find a sympathetic evaluation of the unaccredited credential (IMHO, this will most frequently be due to incompetence. This incompetence may be more common outside the USA where there's less knowledge about the strange system of accreditation here.)

Is there any chance that you could get any refund? Perhaps this might make the decision easier? Of course there's no refund for the work already invested but perhaps you could use that knowledge to "test out" some of the credits at a RA school?

Good luck!

 

Re: Re: KW Exposed!

Thanks for your kind words.

I'm sans RA Degree but thankfully, 20+ years in IT and a quality two yr. Diploma. I'm not a job seeker, thus that's not my motivation. I'm just an older fart wishing I had done life differently. Then in one of my ever-dwindeling moments of clarity, it dawned upon me that that I'm not dead yet, (think Python), and doing it the right way is still an option.

Sure wish I had done a bit more homework up front re. KWU though. But after all, how could you go wrong with a school sanctioned by a State Government to confer degrees?

I'm working with the admissions folks at Athabaska University, (Bear-approved) and thankfully all is not lost. I can get part credit for KWU work done. Not via credit transfer, but knowledge gained. (PLAR)

Anyway, thanks once again for your insight.

Cheers....Randy Nelson (OracleGuy)

 

Re: Re: Re: KW Exposed!

Similar results could be gotten through TESC, COSC, and Excelsior by using the education from K-W as a basis for CLEP, DANTES, etc. exams to test out. No one has ever said that the education was poor, just the utility of the degree.

Good luck.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: KW Exposed!

Hi Mike,

Agree fully. But then again, if the education was at par, so also should the degree! And around we go again.

In my minimalist view, education represents a means to an end. Unless of course you are a professional student whereby education signifies the capstone of one's collective effort.

The institutions you mentioned seem to be fine, but AU is likely the better choice for me. I'm a Canuck, thus the cost is very reasonable for a "homie". Plus the programs really are excellent. There is a satallite, mini-campus, close to my home where I can take my exams etc. Gotta luv it.

Anyway, must catch a few Zzzz before the 6am claxon.

Thanks for your valued input.

Cheers...Randy

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: KW Exposed!

Hi Randy,

It has not been vigourously argued that the K-W classes are below standard. (Although if you read the K-W forum, I remember some stuff indicating that there might be problems here as well. For example, IIRC, someone was taking an object oriented C++ programing class as a graduate class and I would be very surprised if that would normally be considered a graduate class, especially because the book indicated that it was intended for sophomores.) What is known below standard is the graduation requirements and the evaluation of life experience which is done in a very much degree mill fashion.

Of course, K-W has other behaviors and a history that is also very indicitive of a degree mill, like not publishing the graduation requirements, which is a typical degree mill tactic. But then I'm sure you're aware of this all by now.

Have fun,
Bill

 

Re: KW Exposed!

In all fairness to my *former* school, the courses via KWU were fine. In fact, KW does have a comparative curriculum quality guarantee. Oooo... I’m sure that if you completed the prescribed text(s) and the recommend supplemental materials, you’d come away with a course experience on par with any credible institution.

Now, the exams are a different story IMHO. I found then to be less than a reasonable challenge. All open book, multiple guess, er…choice, fill in the blanks etc. The only real challenge was the C++ exam where you had to write a snippet or two of code. But again, not even remotely as difficult as some continuing Ed. courses I’ve taken.

I can feel the flames a com’in….

Cheers…Randy

 

Re: Re: KW Exposed!

This is an excellent example as to why this particular question is so difficult to address in this type media. To answer it definitively, it would require a full audit. One similar to what would be conducted when a school applies for accreditation.

This is an excellent example as to why, when pointing out that K-W is a degree mill, I like to stick to the obvious degree mill behaviors as supporting evidence.

BTW thanks for the information,
Bill