Kaepernick says he’ll stand for anthem if given chance to play in NFL again

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Oct 8, 2017.

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  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The vast majority of vets -- especially those who have served in combat and have lost colleagues or family members to death or permanent maiming -- would never recommend dishonoring the national anthem by kneeling.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  3. decimon

    decimon Well-Known Member

  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    The kneelers are protesting the flag and anthem -- and what they represent in the United States. There is a time and a place for everything, but when men and women return home, forever maimed and mutilated by war -- that's not the time to protest their ultimate sacrifice for the nation. Some people see the U.S. flag as a bastion of freedom, while the angry and the Marxists see it as a hindrance to socialized paychecks, medicine, healthcare and economics "from cradle to grave."

    What does the United States flag (and anthem) represent to you?
     
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    It's actually kind of funny, in a sad way, that you think that your version of the protesters story is more accurate than the protesters version of the story.
     
  7. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    Colin Kaepernick was quite explicit about his motives.

    "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

    It's a rejection of the country itself, the country that the flag and the national anthem represent, because of the sins and moral failings that he attributes to it.

    As always on the left, it's divisiveness in the name of inclusiveness. In this case, the thing to be morally condemned is whatever larger identity that Americans ideally share in common with one another.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2017
  8. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Kizmet, as heirophant aptly noted, it's what Colin Kaepernick specifically said e.g. Kaepernick is not going to stand up, to show pride in a flag for a country, that oppresses black people. There you have it. Case closed, except for MSM manipulation to construe it into something other than what Kaepernick said.

    Kizmet, do you agree with Colin Kaepernick's explicit statement about why he is protesting the flag of the United States? The alt.left media has omitted Colin Kaepernick specific words because the vast majority of United States citizens would never support it. However, disingenuous MSM commentators are lying by denying the reasons for the protests. Once again, it is MSM FAKE NEWS with their attempt to manipulate the public. It's all about public manipulation.

    The alt.left MSM has no objective credibility. It is biased garbage with alt.left lies that are designed to mislead honest and patriotic Americans. The alt.left media is immensely distrusted by the vast majority of all Americans. The alt.left propaganda machine learned its tactics from Joseph Goebbels, Karl Marx and Lenin. Communists are proud of the alt.media bias, while United States citizens are increasingly disgusted by it.
     
  9. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    I'm going to disagree with you about something, Me Again.

    I don't perceive the mainstream media as being alternative left (alt.left). They are as mainstream left as it's possible to be. They are almost definitive of what the left-establishment is.

    I'm more inclined to perceive dissenting and alternative voices on the left as 'alt.left'. In the 2016 primaries, Bernie Sanders gave a face to lot of that Democratic dissatisfaction with the DNC, with Debbie Wasserman Schultz and with the whole idea that the 2016 nomination simply belonged to Hillary, that the deal was already done and the game was already fixed by Clinton cronies in Washington. Remember that the alleged Russian hacking that was originally the focus of some of the conspiracy theories for why Hillary lost, involved files from the DNC being leaked to Wikileaks that illustrated how the party establishment was working behind the scenes to ensure a Hillary nomination.

    The Bernie Sanders segment is the most obvious and perhaps most presentable version of the alt.left. I see them as the left-equivalents of Trump voters. And interestingly, Sanders voters do have things in common with Trump voters, such as the working people vs the rich and powerful elites populism. But a lot of Trump's appeal wasn't just economic, it was cultural. I believe that the Democratic party's fascination with embracing and defending those who signal their own virtue at Middle America's expense (this thread is an illustration of that) and all the incessant divisive identity politics will put the Dems at a severe disadvantage in appealing to Trump's voters.

    The black-clad antifa thugs are far less presentable, but nothing if not alternative, as are the more loony-tunes campus Marxists and postmodernists. The alternative corners of the right obviously have their less reputable denizens as well. (Neo-nazis and whatnot.) Both sides have their weirdos and their crazies. (Except that crazies on the right don't dominate university faculties.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2017
  10. jhp

    jhp Member

    So, just to recap.
    Mr. K stays in locker room to protest, unless of course some team would pick him up.
    Then, he is suggested to come out and kneel to put emphasis on his protest, unless of course some team would pick him up.
    Thereafter, he will be happy to stand as soon as some team would pick him up.
    And, now since no team is willing to pick him up, he is suing the NFL because NFL is colluding against him.

    Do I have it right? He is willing to forgo his deep deep conviction, as soon as someone is willing to pay him enough money? /s

    My slow point, I understand bringing attention to plight. In my opinion, his efforts would have been more successful instead of this mess if he would have stuck to his supposed conviction.

    Alas, his moral dilemma can be purchased for thirty pieces of silver, I mean a few years of contracts...
     
  11. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Heirophant, from a technical perspective, you are spot-on. There is no disagreement from this end.

    As a side-note, prior to Trump's nomination, many Republicans (to include this writer) were completely disgusted with Republicanism because it seemed to be comprised of elitists who (behind closed doors) are drinking the same kookaide as the DNC elitists. Many differences were in name-only. Both parties were filled with corruption, paybacks, money schemes and other nefarious actions that are only done behind closed doors and away from public knowledge. From an analogous perspective, it was like voting for a Republican who only had 5 demons or voting for a Democrat who had 500 demons. What's the difference when both are evil? Republicans did and do good things, but it does not negate the political deep state that appears to be pervasive in the Republican and Democratic swamp.

    Then along came Trump, who was intimately familiar with the crooked ways and shenanigans of the world e.g. it's difficult to deceive him. He broke the mold by dedicating his life to the Lord (in his own way) and to patriotism (for the good of the United States). And now the storybook-of-the-future is being written in our lifetime -- right now. It's a good thing. Very good.
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    More true words, I've never seen on this forum.
     
  13. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The last part is right, the rest of it was debunked.
     
  14. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Black people often don't get the luxury of being treated like other Americans. We're Americans, but we've been either enslaved or have had our constitutional rights violated over hundreds of years. But, I don't see you calling racist people un-American for mistreating Americans. I didn't see the president calling the people waving around the Confederate battle flag unpatriotic. The Confederacy was a foreign country and an enemy to the United States.

    What about the fake news your cult leader just spread about past presidents not calling the families of soldiers who've died? Isn't that lie #1301 over the past 9 months? He was just trying to cover up for his delayed response to the service members who just died in Niger. He was too busy tweeting about the NFL and last year's campaign. Oh, and he was backtracking on his rude tweets about how we can't stay in Puerto Rico forever, which looked bad because he pledged to be there for Texas as long as it takes. Puerto Ricans are just another group of Americans who aren't afforded the same luxuries as other Americans.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2017
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    "Cult leader"? What a wonderful way to refer to the President of the United States.

    It's reprehensible that the left and MSM are trying to smear President Trump over his calling the families of fallen service members. It's beyond reprehensible that a political opponent would listen in on a private phone conversation, then try to score cheap political points on the memory of a fallen soldier. I don't know how that Congresswoman can possibly look at herself in the mirror.

    Is that how far our society has devolved?

    President Trump has done more for the military and law enforcement in 8 months that President Obama did in 8 years.

    A Gold Star widow says Trump understood her loss - CNNPolitics
     

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