Is the DBA the new MBA?

Re: Re: Re: May Be

And where, praytell, are the statistics (or other proofs) of this alleged uselessness of the DBA in the business world?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: May Be

You are playing the same game as others. Where the stats? Where is the evidence?
We are not publishing a paper in the subject here. This is based on my personal experience and experiences of many colleages that have a PhD or DBA in business.

These degrees train you to become a researcher in business, they develop you research skills and prepare you to conduct research studies. If you think that you will become a better marketer or financial manager because of a DBA, then you are not in the right program.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: May Be

Are you saying, then, that you are a businessperson who has had the professional acquaintance of various financiers and marketers whom you initially knew when they were mere MBAs and that you've actually watched them trot off to get DBAs and they came back no better as marketers/financiers than they were before their DBAs?

 

The European DBA is nothing more than the American DBA ... coursework followed by a dissertation based on applied research. The European PhD is a degree based on a theoretical research dissertation, like the American PhD, albeit the European PhD has no coursework phase, unlike the American PhD.

 

PhD/DBA vs IMPM

With the coming glut of Business DBAs and PhDs having no significant marketing value and no financial impact on the holder's career, these degrees may become known as Vanity Degrees.

You spoke of McGill. Sounds like you have some involvement. McGill/INSEAD has an innovative IMPM (International Master's in Practicing Management) as a variant on their standard MBA. Are you familiar with the program ? What reputation does the IMPM have within McGill ?

 

Re: PhD/DBA vs IMPM

I have a McGill's MBA. The program is good but not suitable for part time study. It is hard to specialize and even finish the degree as a part time student. It was common to see students taking 5 years to finish a MBA at Mcgill.

McGill recognized that the program was not flexible for executives so they created this new program that you mentioned. The program is an alternative to the regular MBA but at a more accelerated rate and flexible as it combines the use of the internet.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: May Be

If I wanted to become a better financial manager. I would have pursued a CFA or a CMA. Same thing for any other business function, a certification does far more you as a professional than a DBA.

A DBA is basically a credential for adjunct work and teaching. It helps when you prepare research proposals and to get research goverment grants.

I personally only use it when sending a resume for teaching work. For professional work, I leave it out of my resume as people tend to think that you are just an academic with little work experience when you have one.


Don't take me wrong, there is a lot of consulting work that requires research and writting skills so the DBA can be considered as a plus.



I agree that the DBA is the practicioner's research degree that means that it trains to conduct applied rather than theoretical research. However, at the end of the day it trains you to become a researcher.

 

Defective MBA

While at McGill, did you have Henry Mintzberg as a Prof ? Mintzberg's idea is that the MBA - as currently taught - is seriously defective, and that new MBA grads are a menace to society. At best, MBA school teach effective Analytical Techniques - but not real Management. MBA grads - especially HBS case study types - are taught that good management technique does not depend on context; a well-trained MBA can manage telecommunications one day, and hospitals the next - using the same technique. Thus fast-track MBAs are too often hired to manage functions they don't understand. The results of this mindset have been disastrous - from the misguided conduct of the War in Vietnam, to the current-day deindustrialization of the USA. The Friedman ethic, which is that the only duty of the CEO is to maximize shareholder value, is dominant today in MBA schools.

I think Minzberg is mostly right. The problem is how to reform the MBA without introducing liberal softheadedness. Mintzberg is big on "soft skills". This ring alarm bells in a staunch conservative like me. Minzberg set op McGill's IMPM pragram as a counterpoint to the regular MBA. I'm wondering how this exeriment is working out at McGill/INSEAD.

 

Re: Defective MBA

I did not have this professor. He is quite vocal about the idea that management schools don't train you to become a manager due to their lack of hands on practice. I can't really say much about this, I got my MBA in MIS and have served me well as I learned what I needed to know to become a systems analyst and project manager. It also helped to teach in the business schools so I don't really have any complaints.
However, I think that the two year program is becoming obsolete and the one year program becoming the standard, a two year full time program can become endless if done part-time. It took my 5 years to finish mine. McGill is exploring new programs that can be completed in shorter times.

 

Re: Defective MBA

Now you know why I detest MBAs.

 

Re: Re: Defective MBA

We have to remember, that the degree is a Master of BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION and not a Master of MANAGEMENT. Business Administration and Management are two different disciplines. Unfortunately many treat them as synonymous.

The University of Waterloo developed a unique program years ago just because of this reason: MBA programs teach very little about management. The program is the Master of Management Sciences (MMSc). I graduated from this program and found that it was a good balance of business administration and management.

 

Defective MBA

I've looked at the curriculum for the Waterloo MMSc. I don't see anything that wasn't offered - as either core or option - in the MBA program I attended. What exactly is different about the MMSc ?

 

Re: Defective MBA

It's true that some courses themselves are on the surface may not be much different than a typical MBA. Perhaps they are a bit more mathematical, but essentially similar in content.

I found that the program stressed more "management of technological innovation", "management of technology", "organisational theory and behaviour" and "knowledge management" than it did "accounting", "finance" or "marketing". I suppose that it didn't come across as an MBA program to me.

The admission requirement are a little more strict than a typical MBA program and the program took graduates from undergraduate honours engineering, math, science or business programs. Someone with a BA in History could not get in.

When I graduated, I found myself feeling more like a "management scientist" than a "business administrator".

 

Defective MBA

My MBA contained all of the above - with plenty of (non-calculus) math.

But this is exactly the criticism of the MBA - that it stresses too much math-based scientific "analytical skills" - which get applied to situations where they are inappropriate or inadequate.

 

Re: Defective MBA

Well, the MMSc served me well. I had no complaints and my company paid for it. I guess I just like to tell people that I have an MMSc.... sets me apart

 

Re: Re: Defective MBA

Management science is not exactly the same as managament. My second concentration at mcgill was management science. Management science concentrated in the application of mathemathics in the solution of business problems, most of these courses were based on operations research, statistics and probability. Management scientists normally work as operations analyst, financial analysts, staticians between others.

 

IMO there might be differences between schools, but in reality, managing a business is the same as administrating a business. It is simply a semantic play on words.

 

Re: Re: Defective MBA

So much so, you went and got two for yourself?

 

Re: Re: Re: Defective MBA

There's a story behind that (though I'm not sure I'm ready to divulge that in a public forum), but, yes, I detest myself for having gotten two MBAs (or any amount of business education beyond the minimum needed to secure that BA in History/Political Science).