Is an online doctorate worth the effort anymore?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SurfDoctor, Jul 20, 2012.

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  1. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    "I don't mind being called a liar when I am lying, when I am about to lie or just finished lying... but not when I am telling the truth." Homer Simpson
     
  2. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    We were the first ones to do that--at least in the fields of general business & management. Over 6,300 faculty degrees at over 400 institutions. 85% of the faculty held the Ph.D. degree and just under 6% held the DBA. As we were collecting our data, we noticed that certain disciplines within business (e.g. accounting, supply chain, I.T.) had higher rates of DBA holding faculty.

    Why is it that you say that universities "sell" DBA degrees but "offer" Ph.D.degrees?
     
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." (Wimpy)
     
  4. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    How do you feel about an EdD? Is that substandard as well?
     
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    In my personal opinion, a doctorate holds value if the holder is able to show that is capable of creating new knowledge. A doctorate only makes sense if the person is able to produce original research that can be applied to work place (in the case of professional doctorates) or if it has high academic standards that can be published in a peer review journal of high ranking (A or B).

    A doctor that has not presented at conferences, has not published and not contributed to knowledge is my opinion a poor doctor regardless of designation of the degree (DBA, EdD, PhD).
     
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My mistake, it should "offer" DBAs.

    A lot of people that have DBAs, EdD, etc call themselves PhDs so it might be hard to know some of these PhDs are not really DBAs. Some schools also changed their designation from DBA to PhD such as Indiana University, I know a faculty member that had his degree reprinted so he could get a PhD instead of a DBA from that school.

    Thanks for sharing this interesting study.
     
  7. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    I didn't think the DBAs and EdDs were meant to be research degrees. Aren't they supposed to be for going to work, like an MD or JD?
     
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Of course it is! What is better - a PhD (now say it proud) or a degree that looks like someone could not spell their name - Ed? That was a no-brainer!
     
  9. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Hello, my name is EdDy.
     
  10. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I wonder if I could get my future Bachelor of Science in Business Administration reprinted to a Management Bachelor of Arts :salook:
     
  11. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Mister EdD :lew: ...Oh Wilbur...
     
  12. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Actually both the Ed.D. and the DBA were developed by the Harvard Graduate School of Education and the Harvard Business School, respectively, so those schools would be able to offer and administer their own doctorates. At Harvard, only the College of Arts and Sciences are allowed to offer the Ph.D. degree, so colleges that want their own doctorates must call them by a different name. Both the Ed.D. and the DBA were developed as research degrees requiring a dissertation. At most colleges and universities, this is still true. The U.S. Department of Education classifies these as research doctorates, equivalent to the Ph.D.

    The MD and JD are first professional degrees that are designed to provide entrance into a profession. They are distinct from the research doctorates.

    You can see the difference between first professional degrees and research doctorates at Structure of U.S. Education.
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I don't know anyone with an Ed.D. or DBA who calls the degree a Ph.D. It is absolutely true that a number of universities have changed their Ed.D. or DBA programs to Ph.D. without making any substantive changes in the curriculum or dissertation requirements, adding further evidence that there really are not much difference between these degrees.

    Our study comparing over 100 accredited doctoral programs in management did not find much difference between the DBA and Ph.D.
     
  14. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    I could not agree more. The fact that I have a doctor of education, rather than a doctor of philosophy degree, has not been a career liability at all. I have beat out dozens of Ph.D.s for my last two positions. Of course I publish in peer reviewed journals, present regularly at conferences and hold leadership positions in my professional association. In our study of DBA vs. Ph.D. in management, we found over 350 faculty with DBAs.
     
  15. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

    Josef Goebbels PhD
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2012
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No. Both degrees are typically awarded on the basis of original, significant contributions to their respective disciplines. In other words, a dissertation. While there are a few exceptions (see NCU), there's simply no comparison to the dissertation-less first professional degrees you mention.

    Tony, holder of an Ed.D., often points out that comparisons between Ed.D. and Ph.D. programs reveal no consistent differences. They are the same.

    Using Harvard as an exemplar, it does not award the Ph.D. in either business or education, preferring to award the DBA and Ed.D., respectively. I believe this is due to the fact that business and education are not arts and sciences disciplines. But the DBA and Ed.D. degrees are considered to be at the same rank as a Ph.D.

    My opinion: no difference.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I shoulda (a) read the thread before posting and (b) known that Tony would nail this subject. Sorry, Tony. :)
     
  18. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    A lot? And you know this -- how? Can you name just one?
     
  19. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Back on March 19 at the Thread: Something new at NCU-this is a good thing!
    I posted:
    03-19-2012 01:23 AM #30

    Is a EdD a PhD?
    At the NCU website
    (now bad link)

    The Dean, School of Education is listed as PhD when in the text she has a EdD from Nova.

    NCU finally changed it to this:

    Academic Leadership | Northcentral University

    All have PhD after their name except Cynthia Knott. She is listed at Dr. Cynthia Knott, not Cynthia Knott Ed.D. No mention of EdD on this page.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2012
  20. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    She's listed as "Dr." on one page, but on another page (same website), she's listed as Ed.D from Nova Southeastern University.

    It's one thing for a webmaster to accidentally list someone with a doctorate as a PhD, but it's quite another thing to falsely claim to have a EdD when a person only has a PhD.

    People at work constantly say I have a PhD. I used to correct them and tell them that it's a DBA, but I quit correcting them when a woman shrugged her shoulders and threw her hands up in the air and adamantly said, "It's the same thing."
     

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