Is an online doctorate worth the effort anymore?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SurfDoctor, Jul 20, 2012.

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  1. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I do not have a PhD as a goal primarily because I'm unsure where it would get me. If, on the other hand, I had some sense (based on real information) that a PhD would propel me toward a specific, desirable position in a specific organization or industry then I would consider it. For example, if I were to be interested in moving into engineering R&D and I discovered that a PhD was the minimum credential across the industry then I might feel like it was worth the time, effort and expense. On the other hand, I would be unlikely to say to myself, "Having a PhD would be cool and it might even get me a raise," or "Maybe I could get a p-t teaching gig." It's too vague for me. If I'm going to make that kind of investment I need a better, more reliable return. My only recent example is this: A young woman I know just got her Masters in Psych and is thinking about getting her PhD to finish the deal. She's only 25, she has the money, she's unattached personally and geographically. I didn't tell her to do it or to not do it. I told her that based on what I knew, it would never be easier than if she did it now. She's got the grad school mind set, no one else will have to sacrifice anything, she can easily be admitted into a good program, it's a clear career track with a clear payoff. If you can put a check mark in those sorts of boxes then it might be a good idea for you too.
     
  2. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I thought I already responded to your objections to language learning. You might not find it useful, but I can guarantee you that I do and that there are many, many, many, many cognitive benefits to language acquisition that go beyond the mere use of the language. Not to mention the social benefits! Ever been to a latin dance party and speak to the young women in their native tongue? :wink: Ever got to write or recite a poem in Français? Ever try an exotic dish on the other side of the world and exclaim "Saya suka roti telur!!!!!! Terima kasih- selamat jalan!" afterwards? :wiggle: You're missing out, man!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2012
  3. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I can relate to this.
     
  4. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    No guts - no glory! :aargh4:
     
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    ...........lol
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Interesting, but there are so many other variables. For example, opportunity costs. By teaching as an adjunct, one gives up one's time to pursue other things (which may or may not be income-producing). Whatever that's worth would have to be deducted, lowering the ROI. And what impact does the degree have on one's regular salary?

    To do an ROI, we'd need the original financial figures, account for growth over time that would have occurred without getting the degree, account for the time spent (and its value) getting the additional revenues, subtract any costs associated with getting that additional revenue, then bump it up against what one paid for the degree.

    As you certainly know, a hypothetical example, while interesting, proves little. That's why I asked about research or other evidence that supports the OP's propositions. My personal (and real) anecdote: the ROI on my Ph.D. has been huge. But that's just one (unverified) data point.
     
  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    If I can exagerate in order to make a point . . .

    I could pull my life savings out of the bank and go to a casino and maybe hit the big one and become a millionaire but it's more likely that I'd just wake up in the morning flat broke. Is that also "no guts no glory?"

    I think that calculated risks are fine but there's a tipping point in the calculation. That's all I'm saying.
     
  8. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Kind of like this - Lost In America - 2,,,2,,,2,,,2.avi - YouTube

    There is always a tipping point but you can never really know what opportunities would come up if you completed a PhD...or know what could be missed if you were working on a PhD. I guess everything is a risk in life if you break it down.
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Of course, you're right. No one ever knows exactly what will happen in the future. People will continue to earn PhDs in History or Sociology, etc. and god knows we can always use a few more cab drivers. Others will earn their DBAs or their PhDs and find themselves passed over for promotion because while they were busy taking courses and writing their dis their competitors were spening their time making money for their companies.

    Don't get me wrong, I think doctoral degrees are great. I think they have tremendous (potential) value. I think that if it's a well thought out carreer move (as opposed to a shot in the dark) then it can be a big benefit, But I'm also trying to balance the equation. I'm answering the op's question . . . is it still worth it? I'm just saying that my opinion is "maybe not." Many people will bust their butts for that PhD and wind up with a huge amount of debt and no big payday. If you want to go to that casino well that's fine with me but I'm putting my time and money elsewhere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2012
  10. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    As I have said many times, mine cost me about $3K out of pocket. If it would have cost me $25K out of pocket (Capella, Nova, Walden) I would never have done it.
     
  11. TonyM

    TonyM Member

    Good point. Ambitious, non-traditional students are bound to be outmaneuvered at work while they study, since they really have to limit their obligations during school. After the master's degree you should reevaluate your abilities. If it looks like you're just going to be a mediocre scholar with nothing new to offer why bother?

    Check out the stacks at a big college library. You'll see countless published dissertations that are quite old, large and unread...very depressing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2012
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Doctorates not only cost tuition fees but opportunity cost. You would need to quantify the number of hours you spent and the amount of money you make per hour to quantify. If someone spent five years, 20 hrs a week and make at least $40 bucks an hour, this will come to $208,000 on top of your tuition fees. You can always argue that you used your tv time to do the doctorate but the reality is that you worked for it instead of watching tv.

    Money wise, it doesnt make sense, it is more if you enjoy teaching and doing research rather than working in a 9 to 5 job. I dont make more money with my doctorate but just do more interesting things.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The reality is that most doctorates produce medriocre research that nobody reads. Very few scholars produce articles that produce hundreds of citations.

    Research at most non research universities is just seen as development for faculty. The doctorate is many times just to justify the high fees that schools charge.
     
  14. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    lol.......
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Interestingly enough, one of my undergraduate history professors (Clarence Dempsey Beck of Western State College) put himself through his PhD at the University of New Mexico driving cabs.
     
  16. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Maybe I'll have to look into the upside potential of being a cab driver. Of course, if I get my PhD from the Union Institute, I might have to look up the upside potential of driving truck.
     
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Back in the Great City of Seattle (wherein I resided for fifteen years), there were a lot of PhDs driving the Metro bus. Apparently, the Metropolitan Municipality of Seattle had very generous tuition benefits.
     
  18. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Yes, and this is the dilemma.
     
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    This thread has actually been quite interesting to me because I've found myself thinking about whether I would ever do such a thingas earn a PhD in some obscure but interesting subject just for fun. It would have to be ultra cheap, like UNISA level cheap because it would be unlikely to get me a job of any sort so there'd be zero ROI. I'm having trouble with the time committment factor though. Lots of hours per week for 5 years. Still, the idea keeps drifting back into my head. You guys are having a bad influence on me.:banghead:
     
  20. mbaonline

    mbaonline New Member

    I think that for me, I still want a doctorate but unless I win the lottery (or return to an employer with a more generous tuition reimbursement), it will have to be UNISA too. I think UNISA is a good school and would work for me for what I want to do in my 10 year plan (continue to teach, write fiction and non-fiction, consult as an independent consultant or for a small firm and career/executive coaching) but it is a long process. I can't see the value in a for-profit PhD and I can't afford an AACSB PhD. The ROI for a $70,000 doctorate just isn't there, unless one is currently a professor needing a PhD for tenure or a high-flying management consultant, especially one younger than I. (I have about 20 more years to work.)
     

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