"Is Algebra Necessary?"

I was a bit slow in math, but somehow, I always seemed to surprise myself and came out with at least a C. No, I was no braniac. I did like PHYSICS alot, which was more like plugging in formula's and talk about gases, hydraulics, pascals law, vibration, radio waves, materials. Very interesting, and that is somewhat a form of math. Algebra sux the big one in my opinion. I hated it. Intermediate Algebra especially. Again, I passed it for my Associates Degree and was that some heck of a hurdle.
Is Algebra neccissarry? I never used it for beans. I don't know anyone that ever has. Maybe NASA??? But why pick on just Algebra. I can think of a boat load of garbage courses college offers just to get a degree. The college run can be quite a gauntlet. You want to hear a waste of a class? Introduction to computer concepts I took in early 1980's. Got a D. I know more about computers and everyone else knows about computers now because back in 1980's, computers were a joke. Why did I get a D? Because I couldn't program beans. Do we use that garbage today? NOT!!!

 

Badmitton and archery? A joke, Business writing? A joke, American history to 1871 or something like that? A joke! The list goes on and on. I guess maybe that is why I fared better in a trade.

 

Incidentally, I agree with teaching basic algebra, but not going very deep in calculating, but just enough to show how a problem can get solved, then go on with computers to do the calculating so that the end result results in a better product. The end result. We do algebra without knowing to what to apply it into. Ok, so we know how to calculate algebra, but in what is it applied to? They never tought me that one. How does algebra equate to me in fixing my home, or cutting wood or running pipe and running bends on pipes or whatever? How do you apply this? Algebra is basically, if you put in the time and practice, you solve the puzzle. No practice, no time in it, you won't pass. It's getting you to work at nothing at all but you must do it in order to pass. This reinforces negative results and waste of time and talent. You can work hard all you want but in the end, you accomplished nothing!

 

Teaching algebra to 12 year olds doesn't mean anything.
I wonder how it is that 99.99% of my Culinary Math students in 18 years have all failed their arithmetic pretest? In fact, it's better than 99.99% since I've only had 2 (not percent, 2 the quantity) score 100% on the 20 question exam given on day 1. I estimate 30 students per class, I taught 3 sections per year- that's about 1500 students. It consists of only addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. No fractions/percents. No calculators allowed. Questions like 345/3 or 67*97. I've had students write answers with TWO decimals. I'm not kidding.

So, either all incoming chefs are idiots (which is clearly not the case) or math skills are lacking. So, it's nice that we call what 7th graders do "learning algebra" but I'd rather see a good 8 years of solid arithmetic first.

If you read my prior post in this thread, I explained that our program has recently decided to require MAT121 College Algebra instead of Culinary Math. Please explain to me how >1500 student UNABLE to complete an arithmetic quiz without a calculator, will endure 3+ years of "remedial" math that will accomplish something that was not accomplished in 13 years of public education?? It's crap. The school knows it's crap. It's a cash cow, and the college knows it. HOWEVER, the students don't. And because of this type of barrier, they'll get 2 years of loans and no degree. Many will drop out of the field all together.

So, someone unable to do algebra WAS going to be trained in a trade and now will do what exactly?
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Algebra is the devil, but it's necessary to graduate from any reputable college/ university. I don't make the rules, and if I ruled the world it would be different!

In military circles, Algebra is referred to as "Hodgy's revenge."

 

Part of the problem we were noticing in the division I just left was that they were pushing more and more kids to take Algebra BEFORE they got to high school. I did. I took it in 7th grade way back in the day, but I only had 6 kids in my class. Now there are about 40. (There are about 100 kids in the grade.) Then they move on to take Geometry in 8th grade. They get to high school, and although they were forced into those two classes, many have not learned basic skills, like multiplication tables.

The kids that were NOT pushed into math are equally lacking because teachers don't have time to actually teach lessons to the point of student mastery. Because of the damn state assessment tests, they have to go go go to make sure they cover everything, regardless of whether the topics are mastered. The kid can fail, and then poof, he still magically ends up in the next grade of math, which is even harder because he never mastered the stuff (or hell, at least became proficient) from the previous year.

-Matt

 

Totally should have graphed it.

 

You and I are of the same opinion on this. I also believe this is the root problem, but somewhere someone gets excited at saying their child in in this or that class. The reality is that a 7th grader needs more arithmetic. An 8th grader needs more arithmetic. A high school graduate needs more arithmetic.....everyone needs more, until they can demonstrate 100% competency. THAT's the skill our kids need. And among those who demonstrate 100% competency, let's give them more to do. Give them the next step. It's so simple.

 

Commentary on "Is Algebra Necessary?"

There was a commentary on this that I found interesting. I think he needs to develop the theme more, but he asks the important question that questioning the value of teaching kids algebra is more of a distraction of the greater problems in education, like pigeon-holing of students instead of making sure there is mastery of concepts. I know I'm math traumatized from childhood. :dunce:
Daily Kos: On Algebra and Lies We Tell Children (And Ourselves)

 

OMG I can't even contain my geeky excitement! He's my soul mate for sure.

 

"Mallrats" movie quote here: "Your maleness amazes me sometimes."

 

I worked in electronics for years and calculating the tail-current of a transitor was not uncommon. Boolean Algebra was required to build any digital circuit. I took advanced math in the mid 80's and again in the early 90's and used it all the time. I would assume I am the exception.

 

I think part of the problem in this thread is because we have tried to shoehorn trade schools into a college format. Naturally 29palms (an A&P mechanic IIRC) and cookedrosa (a chef, IIRC) can say how little use Algebra is. Those fields are TRADES. IMHO, if a person signs up to learn a trade they have every right not to expect to be forced to learn something that is of zero use in that trade.

However, In order to give folks nice little associates degrees for learning trades, many of these programs were forced to include "useless" material. My solution is simple. Remove trades from academic credentials. You want to become a chef or a Mechanic, great. We have an awesome certificate or apprenticeship program for you where you will learn only the things that apply to your job.

On the other hand, if you also want a degree of some kind, then you are going to have to learn some subjects that are not directly applicable to your field. Why, because a a college degree is not the same a trade school. If you don't want to learn the "useless" stuff, don't get the degree. Just be happy with your certificate.

 

Kids in other countries are doing calculus at 8th grade and we are worried about asking college freshmen to do algebra?
What is the US coming to?

 

I don't disagree. HOWEVER, once you step outside of STEM you can say the same thing. Does a BA in History/philosophy/art need algebra? Too liberal? Ok, what about a librarian,journalism, or elementary education teacher? Those are not part of a trade school track, but are 4 year degrees likely leading to a BA.

I would, however, argue that every member of society should be competent enough to balance his check book, calculate a budget for his household, understand the interest on his credit card, and count/add change at the grocery line. The truth is, for someone who can do those things easily and accurately, they DO have the ability to be TAUGHT algebra if they choose. For someone that lacks that skill set, taking "algebra" is an incredible waste of their own time. Understanding basic arithmetic is so important, what's the point to fast forward when an individual doesn't have 100% mastery?????? It's MORE important, yet it looks like we do our students a disservice not to offer higher maths, oh please!? I loved the phrase from the article about math being "linear and sequential" which is my belief system as well. If you don't know 1+1, there just isn't any point in learning 1+2.

As to passing a class? Seriously, most people can game the system enough to pull a "C" out of any class and move forward. I've gotten an "A" or a "B" in a few subjects I don't know much about. I do, however, know how to earn a good grade, so I do. I think a person of average RESOURCEFULNESS could pull a "C" in their sleep.

 

Every time I hear that people need to be 100% on basic arithmetic, I think of the phrase "all I need to know I learned in kindergarten".

My youngest son who is going into second grade is solid on arithmetic. My oldest son is going into 6th and will have algebra this year. It isn't a difficult subject for people who are willing to put forward a minuscule amount of effort.

 

Exactly, so why can't that be a baseline?

 

The other thing about math is that it isn't just math. It's logic. And goodness knows, the world NEEDS a little more logic!

-Matt