Irate law school grads say they were misled about job prospects

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by 03310151, Aug 17, 2010.

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  1. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Well, what's a young man/woman to do?

    If you tell your high school guidance councelor that you are looking for a solid 9-5 with insurance and paid vacation time, they wince at you. If you say your goal is to go to law school, they laud you and hang your picture up in the school lobby.

    The myth that more education = better job, or even worse, that more education = better life is deeply ingrained into the psyche of those who guide us in such matters from early on. I told all of my teachers and counselors that I wasn't sure about college and they treated me like as if I was contemplating (literal) suicide.

    When will people do the simple math? If everyone goes to law school, it does not mean that everyone can be a lawyer. HELLO!?!?!
     
  2. rickyjo

    rickyjo New Member

    That's a pickle, I agree that perhaps societal values more than individual judgment is at fault (am I extrapolating your sentiment correctly MC?). It is natural and desirable to wish to impress those important to you, usually parents, and I believe that drives many people to do the wrong thing, or perhaps a particular thing that is wrong for them.
     
  3. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Not really. I did what I usually do, which is blame everybody but myself :D
     
  4. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    You are absolutely right, people are often ignorant about the value of education. The "education = better life" equation is not necessarily true anymore. How foolish people are sometimes. Pardon me, gotta go, I've got to get back to work on my doctorate degree now.
     
  5. Wow. This thread is giving some harsh treatment out. I'm kind of on the "outside" looking in since I won't graduate with any debt; nevertheless I'm trying to get an understanding of what viewpoint you guys/ladies are coming from. For starters, I'm kind of confused as to where some of the harsh treatment comes from. On this forum we have people whom are pursing PhD’s for their own personal interest, without even worrying about the ROI. I admire that. Very seldom does anyone have anything negative to say about it. Yet when that thought can up on this thread a "blind eye" was turned to it. Second, to think that most law students are sitting in class thinking "I'm going to be rich" is simply farfetched. Just like anyone else we keep our eyes on the news. This mythical "Big Firm" is not the focal point for students as it once was. Even those from the top 20 have problems getting with the "Big Firm." I'm in no form nor fashion offended, but I'm quite confused so please help me come to an understanding of what point is trying to be made.
     
  6. GeneralSnus

    GeneralSnus Member

    [​IMG]
     
  7. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    The point is that a lot of people who want to become lawyers do so for the money, power, prestige. It's not for some love of the constitution or wanting to help their fellow man. You can't assign your reason for going to law school to other people in law school.

    I'm sure your reasons are alturistic, but it remains that most wannabe lawyers are in it for the money. You know what? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    I take pleasure in people waking up to the fact that school (law school) is not the golden ticket it is often touted as. If you cannot wake up when I tell you, I guess it's better you find it out yourself...the hard way.

    I'm the first in line to lambast the PhD seekers in these boards. I think they are nuts, and the ones with families are even more so. If you think these guys are getting their Doctorate degree's for pure love of learning you will not make a good lawyer and I have some beach front property in Montana to sell you. Its pure ego satisfaction some of them will even tell you that. I also have nothing wrong with that. Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

    You also understand that next to used car salesman, lawyers are some of the most hated professionals out there? You think that's just a misunderstanding?
     
  8. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    From the article:
    "Recognizing the mounting crisis, the American Bar Association recently urged prospective students to carefully weigh the costs and benefits of a legal education. For a law degree to pay off, the association said in a memo, a grad should earn at least $65,000 a year. Nearly half of employed 2008 grads had starting salaries below that amount. “Law students ought to look at the numbers and envision how their future might be before going to law school, not after,” said ABA president Carolyn Lamm.
    But the critics ask: How can prospective students make informed decisions when they aren’t given enough information in the first place?"


    This was the same exact thing I read (I think also from the ABA) back in 1998 when I took the LSAT and was considering law school. I was also told at the time, "there are currently more students in law school than there are lawyers in the U.S."



    I find it hard to believe in 2010 these law students were so surprised they couldn't buy a few Ferraris their first year out.



    Then again, we are talking about the "Jersey Shore" crowd here.
     
  9. I'm just having a hard time seeing where you get your facts from. You just seem to be repeating what you have read/heard from some various source.

    If I can't assign my own personal reasons to other people in law school, then what makes you think you can assign your own personally beliefs to them. Granted, there is some truth in what you are saying but I think your logic is some what outdated.

    If law schools are producing as many lawyers as stated earlier (which is probably true), then where are all the complaints. A few individuals post a blog and all of a sudden it's "Armageddon." Almost every profession has its "I shouldn't have done this" person.

    I see you have gotten being a "lawyer" confused with believing in other's. Big mistake. If you don't have the ability to separate what you do on your free time from what you do on the job, then may God have mercy on your soul cause that's though lesson to learn. Probably even tougher than this "lesson" that your trying to teach me. I'm not even going to bother addressing the "lawyer's being hated" speech, it's no point.
     
  10. On second thought, this thread will probably be more trouble then it's worth for me. I don't want to offend anyone, or for someone to misconstrue what I am saying so I will just leave this alone. With that said, thanks for the information.
     
  11. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    I don't think anyone will be offended by a differing opinion; that's what this board is all about. The more you read on this board, the more you will realize that opinions are all over the map here. The next person that posts may congratulate you on your astute observations!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2010
  12. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Congratulations on your astute observation! :) Seriously though, to agree with you on one aspect; I would assume that not everyone who studies law expects to be a rich and powerful attorney. Isn't it likely that a degree in law would serve to advance people who are already situated in a number of careers? If that's the case, it wouldn't be any different than others getting an MBA to advance in a career.

    I'm studying for a doctorate, but I have no intention or desire to become a tenured professor at a university. I'm doing it to advance in a career that I am already settled in.
     
  13. BrandeX

    BrandeX New Member

    Perhaps a federal law prohibiting educational institutions from using any form of employment statistics as a marketing technique would be in order?

    "I might like to enroll, but I was wondering how many grads get employed?"

    "I'm not permitted to give potentially misleading statistics, please check the gov website for stats regarding recently employment rates in this and other fields."
     
  14. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator

    Or...How about just the opposite. A requirement that the actual chances for employment be disclosed to each student prior to enrollment.
     
  15. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member

    We both have an opinion and I would never state my opinion as fact. You should not feel compelled to leave the thread. Especially under the guise of "I might offend someone". That's a little condescending. You do not get to decide when someone else is offended. They do, it a difficult lesson to learn-I know I struggle with it continually :)

    Your opinions are welcome, just like mine are.
     
  16. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    Some of the comments above are of the "not EVERY law student is..." mold. Allow me to point out that this thread was not about EVERY law student to begin with, but those that fall into a specific character. To be defensive, or to take offense, would be to either identify with or to sypathize with those of that character.

    It would be like someone saying "I can't stand trolls on DegreeInfo!" and then someone responding "Hey wait a minute, not EVERY DegreeInfo member is a troll!"
     
  17. 03310151

    03310151 Active Member


    My question is: How did the biggest troll on Dinfo become a Mod? :D :D
     
  18. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    And who might that be?
     
  19. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I was wondering about that, too. Why would Chip choose a rabble-rouser like Airtorn? :confused:
     
  20. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    This whole issue (not specific to law school- just the idea of paying $ for a degree and hoping for a return) has been front and center in my mind for about 4 years. Seriously, when I was 15, I wanted to cook- so I went to culinary school. The end. didn't care or consider anything else. This time around, looking at 40-going for a career change, and 4 sons rapidly headed toward college has me thinking about this topic a lot.

    I'm not saying this is The answer, by how I reconciled this for my family is to consider 3 things.
    1. What you like to do.
    2. What you are good at.
    3. What earns a living.

    These may or may not be the same thing, but in my case I've settled for 2/3 all of my adult life.

    What I know, is that money is NEVER enough of a reason for most decisions. However, our forefathers were not looking for a career to be their identity/fulfilling/blah blah either- it was a job, and they were happy to have one. Personally, my "currency" has never been the dollar- I need a purpose and to make a difference, that's just how I'm wired. I can say with certainty that if I were a lawyer, for ME, it would be about doing law- not the money. I find it sad that some people (many members of my family come to mind) miss the most potentially rewarding aspect of life by chasing money. That said, once you have taken on the debt, you now have obligated yourself to that life.
     

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