In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by intsvc, Sep 10, 2005.

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  1. intsvc

    intsvc member

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    I fully defend the honest use of LE and PK qualifications.

    I have worked in IT jobs for almost 20 years and started are very poor pay.

    Although my pay has increased, my hours are very long and (as those in the same profession will know) are not conjusive to 'traditional' hours and days of study, going back over the same stuff already learned in the university of life.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definately
    graduate material. However, I've never had the time or full money to afford to go back to school the traditional way.

    Using my considerable LE and references / previous certificates for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT
    undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT. These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.
     
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  2. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

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  3. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

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  4. PJFrench

    PJFrench member

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    Degrees from where?
     
  5. PhD2B

    PhD2B Dazed and Confused

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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Please do not feed the troll. :D
     

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  6. scubasteveiu

    scubasteveiu New Member

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    "I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT"

    What school? Legal and valid? ... I don't see accredited in there!?

    I think it is great you have been able to squeeze some value from a LE / PK degree. I do question having all three (it appears) earned degrees from the same method. I also find it hard to believe in your 20 years of "IT" work you covered enough to knock out the equivalent of a (for example) BS, MS and PhD.

    I have worked in IT jobs for almost 20 years and started are very poor pay.

    So!? Pay has very little to do with it, if anything.

    My co-workers all say I have an extreme high level of knowledge, practical experience and hands-on regarding IT and am definitely graduate material.

    It is nice your co-workers think highly of you and feel you are knowledgeable. I, however, would not use my co-workers as some form of graduate litmus test. It just doesn't work that way.

    These have been put to excellent use in my new jobs and have the added benefits of better pay and a better lifestyle for my family.

    I know many people in IT without degrees holding well paying jobs. It is my assumption your progression is a result of your knowledge, not the degrees.

    Please to not take this posting as a jab at you, your education or your career. It seems everything is working well for you and you are able to provide for your family, I applaud you. This is just a hunch, but I am guessing you could have knocked out (and accomplished) your degrees in a more rigorous and accepted fashion…. If you really wanted to.

    -Steve
     
  7. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Step away from the troll... slowly... slowly... Now, keep your hands at home position while browsing this forum. :p
     
  8. KKA

    KKA New Member

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    Not feeding the troll...

    But, honestly, isn't there room (in real education) for prior learning and life experience--even up to the level of acquiring an undergraduate degree or even a postgraduate qualification? In a way doesn't happen already (on smaller scale through portfolios and the like at the Big Three) or even in the UK when university regulations may allow for some other background substitute in stead of an honours degree to be admitted to masteral or doctoral program?

    There is no room for illegitmate shortcuts in acquiring a real education, but in today's world a degree is not just about acquiring an education and contributing to knowledge, rather, also, degrees are about certifiying certain levels of acquired learning and potential capacities. From that perspective, there should be a real place for life experience and prior knowledge. Just an opinion.

    Kenneth
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

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    The important word there is "honest".

    I strongly support prior learning assessments, but only if the assessments are sound and credible.

    Trying to pass a purchased "degree" that was obtained on the basis of litle more than a sense of personal entitlement is dishonest.

    But if a student actually demonstrates mastery of the degree syllabus through things like passing challenge exams and presenting portfolios of prior work, then I think that's honest and fine.

    The problem at that point is determining the credibility of the assessment process. How are outsiders who don't personally know the graduate and who aren't familiar with the (purported) university that granted the degree supposed to know whether sound and credible assessments took place, whether some kind of insufficient and unsound assessment process took place, or whether degrees are simply being sold?

    Accreditation is one, albeit imperfect, means to get a handle on that question.

    In other words, you have a sense of entitlement. Well, everybody else does too. So how are strangers supposed to determine who really does know his stuff and who doesn't?

    Buying fake, meaningless or unreliable degrees doesn't really answer the question, though it might trick a few uncritical people into thinking that it's been answered.

    And that's dishonest by its very nature. It makes you into a con-man.
     
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  10. Kirkland

    Kirkland New Member

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    Re: Not feeding the troll...

    Not unless one can demonstrate through testing or other approved means that they have sufficient knowledge that meets the standards required for conferring a legitimate degree. This is usually prefaced by coursework and practicums but can be attained through experience. Life experience is very difficult to assess reliably on its own as an academic credential unless you're a Steven Speilberg who was given a waiver for his short film project.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

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    If the education business were all about seeing to it that people who know something get a piece of paper saying they know it, you'd be right. But I s'pect that the education business is all about seeing to it that the educational business get the most amount of money as possible out of the students.
     
  12. tesch

    tesch New Member

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    Unfortunately, I am not aware of a legitimate or credible school that will offer a legitimate, credible, valid or “real” masters or doctoral degree based on life experience, references and industry/manufacturer certifications. One may indeed be well recognized and respected by peers for his or her technical IT skills, but that does not qualify them for a graduate or doctoral degree.

    What you appear to have is simply a “bought” degree. From your message, it also seems possible that your employer believes (deceived into thinking) that you have earned a legitimate degree; it is not that difficult to do, just say nothing. Alternatively, you may have fully informed your employer that your degree was not earned, that your degree is not recognized or accepted by any legitimate school of higher education, and that your degree is not accredited by any accrediting organization recognized by the department of education. If that latter is the case, I would venture to think that your experience, IT certifications and references were viewed as important by your employer; not your degree.

    Indeed, there is no substitute for hands-on and practical experience. However, there is also no substitute for the experience and knowledge gained through the process of earning a legitimate degree – especially one that is earned at the graduate or doctoral level. I tend to think that hands-on experience and industry certifications develop specific skills and make people aware of what they need to know surrounding specific tasks or jobs, while “real” and earned degrees (especially graduate/doctoral) build additional breadth of knowledge as a whole and help one to better understand and illuminate both what they do and don’t know. My point is that from your message it seems “you may not know what you really don’t know” about a graduate or doctoral education, which is a little sad.

    Presenting one’s life experience and prior knowledge is one thing, but trying to legitimize the same by way of a bogus or questionable degree simply diminishes the value and credibility of such experience and knowledge -- at least if the true nature and legitimacy of such a degree is represented honestly to employers and others.

    If an employee does not “fully inform” an employer as to the true nature, acceptability and credibility of an “acquired” degree, and compels or allows an employer to pay additional because they believe the employee has earned a “real” (legitimate, fully recognized and properly accredited) degree, then I would argue that a deception and fraud has occurred. There is no defense for such action, regardless of how one feels about their life experience, prior knowledge or skills.

    Can you tell us from what school you acquired your degrees?

    Tom
     
  13. Guest

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    intsvc:
    "I have been able to obtain legal ..."

    From where as was asked and how was credit obtained?
     
  14. Lauradglas

    Lauradglas New Member

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    I like to know that a college graduate, while not the greatest speller, has the ability and knowledge to use the "spell check" option, particularly if he's an IT guy. But hey, that's just me.
     
  15. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Well, according to his first post on this forum (03/11/05) our fellow member has earned a BSc from the Open University (UK). It seemed like his intention was to stay the course at OU and earn a Masters and a Doctorate. However, based on his first post in this thread, it seems that Mr. intsvc has opted for the smarmy shortcut...

    "Using my considerable LE and references/previous certifications for PK, I have been able to obtain legal and valid and verifiable IT undergraduate, postgraduate and doctorate degrees in IT."

    So in the next five months he "earned" two grad degrees, one of them a PhD. In short, he went the mill route. Now he seeks to justify the decision. He won't even give out the name of his "university" because he knows that if he did it would be the kiss of death to his argument. Of course, having briefly reviewed his short posting history, and having noted his defense of Universal Life Church degrees and James Monroe University degrees I will invite other members to make a guess as to the school name on his diploma(s).
    LOL
    Jack
     
  16. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

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    Hey... for a newbie, Gulick really gets it! I love this guy! ;)
     
  17. KKA

    KKA New Member

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    Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications



    Mr. Kirkland,

    I don't disagree with you. One must be able to demonstrate that one has acquired knowledge. But, once demonstrated, I think then an applicant ought to be given the opportunity to earn a degree based on one's knowledge base. At least, from my humble perspective, it ought to be a possibility in education.

    Kenneth
     
  18. Kirkland

    Kirkland New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    Yes, the opportunity exists, just not based solely on an evaluation of life experience.
     
  19. KKA

    KKA New Member

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: In DEFENCE of Life Experience and Prior Knowledge Qualifications

    In fact, in my original posting, I was suggesting that the possibility ought to be available--not whether it existed or not.

    Nonetheless, in response to others, I would say:

    In a world where degrees are also products/commodities that work for consumers as indictors of certain levels of competencies (for the purposes of employment, etc.), I therefore, maintain that once such competencies are proven as acquired outside the "normal" setting of the "sit and get" classroom, a potential degree ought to be conferred. In other words, there should be legitimate mechanisms to do so at legitimate learning institutions.

    In fact, I would suggest that, for example, a PhD by publication or by completed work as is possible in some UK institutions, is a form of prior learning and life experience. It is this kind of thing I am talking about.

    KKA
     
  20. Gregory Gulick DO

    Gregory Gulick DO New Member

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    Heh heh... I love you too, man! No, I really, really love YOU!! :D
     

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