Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Maniac Craniac, Jun 25, 2021.
I think the Harvard Extension School is very clear on the degree you will receive so it should be no shock to students. On the website it clearly states:
Your Harvard Degree
Master of Liberal Arts (ALM) in Extension Studies, field: Management.
This should not be a shock because you know what type of degree you signed up for and if you saw it would be a problem for employment or anything else you had the right to select another school that fits your personal needs. The degree works for some and others it does not but it is important to understand you went to the Harvard Extension School and not actual Harvard University. Again this is a personal opinion just like everyone else and as I stated I understand why they add the Extension Studies after Liberal arts on the degree. Others will have their own opinions and it's not wrong what they are doing just looks weird.
I got an online certificate from eCornell in executive leadership but again they just offer certificates. I don't say hey I went to Cornell like it was the actual Cornell University. I never compare my degree to the actual academic level of Cornell. If they wanted to add Cornell extension studies I wouldn't be mad.
Those are non-credit certificates. Cornell does have online degree programs with competitive admissions and so do Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, and Columbia.
Columbia is also in the Ivy League, and they have lots of online Master's degrees that are indistinguishable from those awarded on campus, including MA, MS, MPA, and MSW degrees.
Several of the Ivy League schools have indistinguishable online degree programs, but admission is competitive. Open entry and earned admission is usually reserved for extension and professional schools.
I, personally, believe the degree title is stupid because Master of Liberal Arts programs with a concentration usually have a core set of general courses while requiring less than 30 credits in the area of study. However, I knew what the degree titles were and decided not to give Harvard my money for a second class degree. I'm perfectly happy with my University of Florida degree. It's one of the top schools in the world, I didn't get a second class degree, and I paid half the price I would have at Harvard Extension. A lot of people know what Harvard Extension is and is not.
I don't understand your comment. The claim made was that no other Ivy League schools offer online degrees so Harvard students should be happy getting one even if the title of their degree doesn't match the discipline they studied, but that's not correct.
Edit: Open admission also doesn't mean guaranteed graduation. There's been no proof that courses at HES are easier than courses at GSAS or HKS, but if that's what you're implying I'd want to see something to back that up.
That is not what the post said, so that's not how I took it. I think the point is that no prestigious school would risk brand dilution by having most of their students graduate from an extension school with lower admissions standards.
Open entry is different from earned admission. With open entry, everyone who meets the minimum requirements gets in. With earned admission, you usually don't have to meet minimum requirements, such as GPA and test scores. You earn admission by passing the first few courses as a non-matriculated student.
I don't think there was a claim made the no other Ivy League schools offer online degrees. What I said was no other Ivy League school has the guts to do what Harvard Extension is doing by having its Extension masters students outnumber every other one of its graduate/professional schools. Harvard is doing its best, within its structure, to spread its quality of learning to everyone, with the risk of diluting its degrees. Now technically I agree that Extension students are Harvard grads but they are not, in a sense, what the general public views as Harvard grads. If Extension students outnumber other students, long term people will equate Harvard = Extension students.
I personally believe that 90% of Harvard MBA rejects would have the ability to finish/graduate from Harvard Extension. They just don't - they would rather apply to other schools' MBA programs than graduate with an ALM in Extension. Harvard prestige is about exclusivity, not just academic ability. Extension is about educational quality and inclusion, not prestige.
I go back to my original point - no one is forcing anyone to go to Harvard Extension. Harvard is arguably the greatest university in the world - they are know what they are doing with the Extension school names - it is pretty obvious to me they know it "devalues" the prestige of the degree - which was perhaps intentional in the first place. Remember, back then, they called Extension bachelor degree grads "Associate/Adjunct degrees" to distinguish grads from the "real" Harvard.
Looking at these numbers more closely, I think this is being presented in a misleading way, unless we're ready to declare Harvard Business School, Harvard Medical, Harvard Graduate School of Education, or the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health since they were arbitrarily excluded from the count.
To start with, across the whole school Harvard awarded 7756 degrees of which 1199 or 15.4% were from HES. Looking at Masters degrees specifically, Harvard awarded 4802 of which 1049 (21.8%) were from HES. So a supermajority of Harvard grads are still coming from on-campus programs.
Harvard College awarded more Bachelor's degrees (1493) than all of HES graduates combined (1199) and HBS awarded nearly as many MBA's (932) than HES did ALM's (1049), but you don't see anyone questioning whether they attended actual Harvard.
I just want to add let's ask these students that went to Harvard Extension School why did they go to Harvard Extension School? The degree comes as a Masters in Liberal Arts in Extentnsion studies and the cost of the program is almost $3000 per course on average. There are a ton of cheap options. At the end of the day, it's really for the Name of the school on the diploma.
Please re-read my post. I don't think I was misleading in any way - that's why I attached the link. If I wanted to mislead, I would have avoided the link LOL.
It's your right to believe Harvard Extension grads are the equals of Harvard MBA grads. I don't believe so and probably the majority of recruiters don't either. In fact, it's probably true that Harvard university itself doesn't believe so - and that's why they continue to give out ALM in Extension studies - to make sure you know they aren't equivalent to Harvard MBAs.
Re-read my post about the fact that renaming Harvard Extension to Professional studies might increase the enrolment so that they outnumber all other Harvard grads. THat's why they won't do it. Please make sure to read my posts carefully - don't jump to conclusions.
I don't mean this to come off as a personal attack, I really appreciate the debate and the diversity of opinion! But to say that HES graduates more people than the combined enrollment at 3 of Harvard's 12 graduate colleges isn't as compelling when you add the other 9 in there.
HES does rank #1 for size (with more grads than Harvard's 6 smallest schools) but smaller than the combined graduates from Harvard's #2 and #3, or #3 and #4, or #4 and #5
They say it's for the quality of education even though there are many other schools that provide a quality education. If it were only for the education, they wouldn't be complaining about having to put Extension School on their resume. They don't have to put Extension Studies in the degree title if they put Harvard University Extension School as the school name. They thought they found a workaround for getting the Harvard prestige.
If you wanted to debate then my opinion is this - Harvard Extension is 1 school. It is only fair to compare counts to each school. Harvard Extension vs HBS etc. My point was that it had the most masters of ANY Harvard school. And in fact, even if you added the masters grads of several schools, it still wouldn't equal Extension.
I don't get the point of your debate. You've twisted my words twice already.
As I said you have the right to believe Harvard Extension = HBS, HKS etc. I don't mind really. You are free to believe that. And I respect that.
They took Harvard classes (on campus, even) and earned a Harvard degree. What a workaround!
I think more accurate would be "They took Harvard EXTENSION classes and earned a Harvard EXTENSION degree."
Would your institution or school even accept Harvard Extension credits? I highly doubt it so we can't see them as the same... Adding the Extension Studies at the end of the degree is fair to show the degree was in extension courses offered by the extension school rather than actual Havard University. Do you want someone with an Extension School degree to feel like they actually earned the same degree as you when you actually put in so much work to get into the school, complete the course work and exams, and made it all the way to graduation to earn an actual Havard Degree. When people signed up for the Extension School it is because they want to say I went to Harvard. It's not really because that's the degree they wanted which is a degree in Liberal Arts. Again this is a personal opinion.
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