Here we go again

First, there's more than enough graduates from just the schools that a company generally hires from. For some companies it may only be the elite schools. A company must be willing to pay a premium though because those students are in great demand. Most companies that hire a fair amount of new grads are probably the same. They will eventually find a few schools that they are most successful at finding matches between the level of pay they are willing to offer and the competition for those students is willing to pay is on par so then do most of their recruiting on those campuses.

The point being though that at whatever level that line is drawn. Graduates from schools that are below that level won't have much of a chance of being hired. New grads from unaccredited schools will be so low on the list that I believe that they rarely even get a chance to be considered.

Here's a question, RJT.
How many companies recruit at K-W?
I'd bet my last dollar that we're talking a big fat ZERO!

Now let's move up the reputation ladder a large number of rungs to unaccredited schools that offer degrees that are much closer to standard.
How many companies recruit at CCU? at PWU? at ?
I'd guess that we're still talking zero but I wouldn't be willing to bet. Please I'd really like to know, anyone?

 

Missing

Bill:

I feel what you are missing is that K-W, CCU admit largely experienced, accomplished workers. I agree for a 18-20 year old go RA. However, for a worker in a good position, looking for the degree to go up the ladder, or to fufill some sense of completion, the non-degree mill or illegal option of a state, within the United States, liscenced and approved post-secondary educational insitution may me acceptable. This is especially ture of an SL, Approved school in CA, NM or WY, where they are approved by the State Department of Eduaction/equalivancy board.

Why? The school is typically less expensive, typically SL schools recognize and are more accomidating to offer validated life experience credit, and the programs are more rapidly met. Yes, if I were 20, and a newbe, I'd go RA. However, I am in the later part of my 30's, and I'd like to gain some merit of credit for my work accomplishments, provided they meet ACE reqirements. In my case as long as the school is legal, and I feel that I worked hard and was challanged in obtaining, is more important than accreditation.

 

It's getting old, RJT

From the NMCHE web site:

Although the Commission sets standards regarding issues such as faculty qualification, credit hour
requirements and administrative procedures, the focus of the regulations is on consumer protection.
Consequently, licensure with the Commission does not constitute endorsement or approval of an institution by the Commission. (italics added)

 

Re: Missing

Fulfilling some sense of completion is a valid reason to go unaccredited or even a degree mill like K-W if you can feel that sense of accomplishment by getting a degree there.

Wyoming and Montana are the bottom of the barrel right now for states allowing degree mills. The trend over the last twenty years is for states to tighten up their laws against degree mills. I'd guess that within 10 years K-W is going to have to go offshore, clean-up their act or go out of business. If/when they go out of business one of their degrees will be completely worthless. Of course they're already practically worthless so there's not much change.

I would be surprised if ACE accepts your K-W classes. Is that what you're claiming? If you are trying to claim that K-W uses ACE for the conversion of life experience then you're wrong. The K-W method of life experience credit is PURE degree mill style. No analysis per course, not even a statement of number of credits but instead a general hand waving BS job that only serves to mislead gullible people into thinking that they have been given credit for life experience.

Once again I must point out that a K-W degree is legal in only some states, it is illegal in other states.

Please explain to me how someone in their late thirties that is the director of recruiting for two business units of a large company like Unisys can believe that a company that won't hire unaccredited graduates is violating fair hiring practices. Either I'm grossly misunderstanding something or you are playing very fast and loose with the truth. Which is it?

 

RJT, here's the same dose of reality but from another source. You've been told before that K-W is a degree mill that was chased from the state of CA. Here's what the CA State Legislature says about that.

"California has an enviable reputation for the quality of its regionally accredited public and independent colleges and universities. That reputation for quality does not extend to the private, non-accredited sector, a fact that led to enactment of the Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education Act in 1989. One of the explicit goals of that legislation was to rid California of the unwanted title of “Diploma Mill Capital” of the country. Substantial progress was made in establishing the credibility of this sector under the Council for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education, established by the Act as the oversight agency."

quote from http://www.sen.ca.gov/masterplan/0207302NDDRAFTMASTERPLAN.PDF

K-W was chased out of CA and went to Idaho and then was chased out of there to Wyoming. (I think an aborted move to Hawaii may also be in there but Hawaii strengthed their own degree mill law when K-W was preparing to move.) Why has K-W bounced around like a pin ball? Because they are a degree mill that is not willing to meet minimum educational standards that those state legislatures have tried to impose. I believe that eventually Wyoming and Montana will clean up their own act and K-W will be driven off-shore or go out of business.

The view of the future is clearest seen through the focus of the past.
Huffman 2002,

 

Another view

Bill:

What I am suggesting is that companies should be open minded when considering degree holders, especially when the holder may possess 20 years or more of work experience. If a candidate has strong accomplished work credentals, and possess a legally earned state licenced/approved degree. In my opinion, this candidate should not be readily disgarded soley on the basis of their degree not being RA. Else, if the opposite is strictly applied by a hiring organization - even candidates who are graduates from Bob Jones University, could never be considered. Also, any graduates, even experinced ones, from a good but newly starting college, would never be considered. I guess than no new colleges should ever be created - because they will all have to be State Liscenced/Approved (less degree mills), until they make candidacy, and are approved to be RA. Would your company consider a graduate of such a school? Probably not, and by doing so, it could be depriving itself of potentally strong talent.

Thanks,

RJT

 

Re: Another view

I believe that it's a safe assumption that companies do recruit at Bob Jones University. They are well enough known that I would think that all recruiters in that area would at least be familar with BJU. While BJU is technically unaccredited, I don't put them in the same category as when I'm referring to unaccredited schools in general. Sorry if I don't always explicitly state that BJU is an exception but they are.

In my opinion if someone has 20 years work experience then the school degree is only tertiary importance at best unless it was from a degree mill like K-W. If it was from a degree mill then it would hurt the resume, at least in my opinion.

As for the rest of your post, let me leave you with these great words of wisdom, ... again.

"Certain people can make silly assertions about unaccredited bigotory and arguments of unfairness and other tangential irrelevancies all day and it is not going to change the fact that an unaccredited degree has marginal utility."

 

Re: Re: Another view

Sorry for responding to my own post but you did bring up a degree mill BS line that may be new for you.

Generally when a new school is started up that is destined to be accredited, it is clear at the formation of the school. Within three or four years they apply for accreditation. When the school is established using policies and procedures that are below standard then it is known that the school is not on the accreditation path.

So the statement that all schools when they're first started are not accredited is a way for a degree mill to make people think that the degree mill may be accredited someday when in fact there's practically no chance that it could ever occur. The policies, procedures and business model in place at the degree mill prevent it. It is probably easier to just start up a new school rather than to try to change the whole personality of a degree mill.

The only example that I know of where this has even been attempted is the LaSalle/Orion story. Their attempts at gaining accreditation failed. They just couldn't make the transition.

 

I would just like to thank all of those who have posted on this website against K-W for opening my eyes. I am currently working a graveyard shift and saw my chances for going to college during the day as slim and none. So looking at K-W as a way to get my degree looked as an option of which I could take advantage. Somehow I managed to find this website and saw how K-W was being portrayed. My naiveate was is misinterpreting state liscensed for an accredited school. I have since withdrawn from the school, and will be receiving a 75% refund of my $5300 tuition. A hard lesson to learn, but one I owe to you all for opening my eyes. I have recently found a job with daytime hours, and look forward getting back into school, though it be a JC to start.

 

Troy,

Hi. That's good to hear that you've found a better option. By the way, what do you want to get your degree in? There may be some cost effective distance learning options that are still available to you. A thought...

Happy Labor Day!

Cheers,

Dave

 

Mr. Boris:

Only you can decide whether or not withdrawing from Kennedy-Western was the right decision. I hope it was. It certainly was an expensive one. (A good reason why lump-sum tuition with limited refunds is a dicey proposition.)

Good luck.

 

Troy's unfortunate experience is another reminder of why the charade of Kennedy-Western, operated from California but as a Wyoming school, is not a wonderful thing. California schools must pay a small percentage of revenues into a tuition recovery or refund plan, administered by the state. But, as a "Wyoming" school, I would assume K-WU is not required to pay into that fund.

 

True it was a hard lesson but it could have been much worse! I'm very pleased that you were able to get 75% refund.

What was some of the relevant entrance and graduation statistics for K-W? i.e.,
at least 5 years experience?
how many classes did they say you had to take to graduate?
did you have any college credits transferring in? (I'm very curious if they really give an exam and what type it is.)

BTW, good job! Read Kristen's article on the home page of DegreeInfo for a good run down of regional accreditation. Bear's Guide (available from amazon.com) is a good place to find alot choices or just ask here.

 

Dr. Bear and Mr. Huffman,
I appreciate your replies and words of encouragement. It was primarily because of the posts of the two of you in "KWU is a diploma mill" that I had myself dropped from courses.

Mr. Huffman, I had enrolled in their BS in Business Administration "program". I had no previous experience in any type of leadership rolls save for about 9 months as a supervisor in security company, and about 9 years in the military. I had no previous college enrollment, and their tests were nothing compared to questions you might see on the SATs. Hope this information is of use to you.

 

Mr. Huffman,
Forgot one thing. Of the 17 courses they offered in business administration, I only had to take 7, plus the 75 page (minimum) thesis to complete the course, based on credit for my "life experience".

 

Troy, you should check out Gus Sainz's very good list of Distance Learning Undergraduate Business Degrees. You also may want to look at Lawrie Miller's BA in 4 Weeks site. Regardless of which route you take, strongly consider using as many CLEP and DANTES exams as possible for the program you choose, as well as ACE credit for your military training (if applicable). Good luck!

 

Hmmm, let's see zero credits transferred in, 7 classes required to "graduate". IIRC, RJT claimed he had 103 credits he transferred and he had to take 6 or 7 classes to graduate. No wonder K-W doesn't publish any details on graduation requirements nor on how life experience is converted to credit. There is apparently nothing to publish!