Gun permits increased 256% under Obama

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jul 23, 2017.

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  1. me again

    me again Active Member

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    Full story:
    Concealed Carry Permits Increasing -- Good for America | National Review
     
  2. me again

    me again Active Member

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    In Chicago, women worried about violence join gun club

    Full story:
    Flash - In Chicago, women worried about violence join gun club - France 24
     
  3. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    Long ago, in the Naked City...

    A study was done to see who in NYC was most likely to carry a handgun. African-American women were found to be most likely.

    Don't know if that was accurate but it did make some sense.
     
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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  5. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    You guys are 'WAY ahead of us Canadians. Your worst cities for murders (e.g. New Orleans LA, Baltimore MD) have around 45-50 murders each year per 100,000 population. Yet our worst in Canada (Ft. McMurray AB) has a measly 4.4 per 100K! We don't even rate! In fact, almost 30% of Canada's 100 largest cities failed to record even a single murder in 2015! What a dismal performance! :shock: Canada's most dangerous cities 2016: How safe is your city?

    Here, an ordinary citizen can't get a conceal-carry permit. If you're a civilian and have a handgun permit, you can take the weapon to the range - in your vehicle, in a locked box, by the most direct route - no stopping, not even for a pack of gum. At home, you can't even shoot a burglar here - unless he's presenting lethal force himself.

    With rare exceptions (e.g. high-level security), only cops, military, armored car staff and, of course, bad guys carry guns here. Yet our murder rates are only a tiny fraction of US rates, which folks in this forum maintain are lessened by increasing conceal-carry permits.

    Where did we go wrong in Canada? With our stringent no-carry rules, shouldn't our murder stats per 100,000 be through the roof? :shock:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  6. me again

    me again Active Member

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    The loyalists fled to Canada and chose to stay under the English crown. The rebels chose to completely sever ties with the crown to begin their own American government. The loyalists trusted the crown. The rebels did not.

    To prevent the newly formed American government from become tyrannical, the framers of the United States Constitution adopted the Second Amendment, which allows Americans to possess firearms. That's a huge responsibility that has since been completely taken away from Great Britain, where commoners are no longer allowed to possess pistols (except under very unusual circumstances).

    Anyway, to answer your original question, Canada went wrong when they decided to stay loyal to the crown.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    No, we didn't. Neither were the American Revolutionaries wrong. Both had their reasons.

    I meant (sarcastically) what had "gone wrong" to keep our murder rate per 100K so low, in the face of all our gun restrictions? But you knew that. So now, maybe you can tell us why it's so low and yours --well, you know...

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2017
  8. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    To be clear, I meant "No, we didn't go wrong." NOT "No, we didn't decide to stay loyal to the Crown."

    J.
     
  9. me again

    me again Active Member

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    The United States government is "of the people, by the people and for the people" (at least in theory). However, it came (and comes) at a great cost and with a tremendous amount of bloodshed, as is represented by the red stripes on the American flag e.g. the red stripes are symbolic of bloodshed.

    Gun ownership and self-governance is a huge responsibility. There are some socialistic elitists who believe that ordinary people are not responsible enough to govern themselves and/or to possess firearms. For example, governance and gun ownership is relegated to the privileged class in socialistic/communistic/dictatorial countries. However, that is the antitheses of true liberty. So again, to answer your question, the United States form of freedom came (and comes) at a great expense -- and Canada cannot afford it -- which is why it was formed by the loyalists. It is also why Canada continues its creep towards socialism.

    True liberty and Republicanism can only work on a moral people. The United States is God's experiment, but it will only work (and last) under a moral people. An American statesman once said, "Give me liberty or give me death." And another statement countered, "Once the [American] people figure out that they can vote themselves into prosperity [aka socialism], then the [American] Republic is doomed."
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    How nice to have earned your ringing, resounding (not to say dripping) contempt. I'll be going, now. Maybe I'll start saving my spare Canuck change in a "freedom jar." Might amount to something, you never know. :sad:

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2017
  11. me again

    me again Active Member

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    It was not very hard, nor was it intentional. Also, the only self-inflicted insult that hurts is the one that is believed. Please don't be so hard on yourself. Food for thought.
     
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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    Hey, don't dish it out if you can't take it. After all, you started it by bringing the Canadian "oh, where did we go wrong!" smugness.

    Anyway, given the remarkably similar living standards, it would seem that the Americans didn't make a mistake by revolting and the Canadians didn't make a mistake by standing pat. So there, to you both.
     
  13. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

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    My brother makes his living selling firearms, he works for a distributor that represents several major gunmakers.

    He's told me several times that President Obama was the greatest gun salesman in United States history.
     
  14. jhp

    jhp Member

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    Canada have twice as much rape victims than the US.
    Robbery victims 0.9% to 0.6%
    Same with assaults (737.5 to 786.7 or 2.3% vs 1.2%)
    Software piracy - 33% of installed software in Canada vs 20% in US.
    Fear of crime 84.64% vs 75.24% (feels safe walking alone)
    Suicide rate in Canada 19.2/100K vs 15.3/100K

    And, there is plenty more.

    Best one - Canada 92,590 to US 560.1 / 100K people of drug offenses.

    (Sources: UNODC, WHO, and other fun government and inter-government organizations)
     
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

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    C'mon everyone! Let's hate on Canada!

    [​IMG]
     
  16. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    Baldy, ya got the wrong damned goose!
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

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    Heh. Vancouver may have been chock full of people smoking weed openly in parks, but even so I find it very difficult to believe that 92.59% of Canadians are "drug offenders" (whatever that even means).
     
  18. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    "This effin joint." would be a microagression. Okay, an outright insult.
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Active Member

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    And what does the rate of software piracy (however measured) have to do with guns and violent crime? Nothing, that's what.

    Look, Canadians like to brag, especially to Americans. If you want to stop a particularly smug Canadian, just ask when do they plan to elect a visible minority Prime Minister. Or a woman. Or, better yet, ask how the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls inquiry proceeds. Bragging is bad. But, guys, when you bring up gun control or healthcare? That's impossible to resist.

    P. S. You can find any kind of crazy numbers on the Internet; that's not particularly noteworthy. What I wonder about, tough, is what kind of mental state makes 93% ratio of drug offenders in Canada seem plausible. What kind of world these people live in? And they do not even live in one of the regimes where lying is a patriotic duty (yet?).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2017
  20. Johann

    Johann Active Member

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    We did once, Stanislav - her name was Avril Phaedra Douglas "Kim" Campbell. Unfortunately, she wasn't in office long. Hopefully, we'll have another. As for visible minorities, I guess it's America 1, Canada 0. Who knows - maybe Jagmeet Singh will get lucky - though I don't like his pension ideas, and neither does his Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Campbell
    https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2017/07/26/ndp-leadership-rebel-jagmeet-singh-takes-aim-at-old-age-security-walkom.html

    I agree, you can get all sorts of crazy numbers on the Internet, as Stanislav says. And yes, I'll accept the numbers you guys quoted, including software piracy (!) although they have NOTHING to do with the murders-per-100,000 rate I was talking about.

    That statistic - Canada, 1.68 intentional murders per 100,000. U.S. 4.88 - almost 3 times the incidence. That's a LOT of dead bodies, every year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Wow! "God's great experiment" is pretty expensive, in lives. I take it America can afford this price, while Canada is too poor. Just a minute - since God is said to be omniscient, why does He need to experiment? He knows how it all comes out --- doesn't He? And yes, it is pretty irresistible for Canadians to talk about health care and gun control - and irresistible for Americans to give us snark over it, too. But I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off the "F*ck Canada" memes. OK?

    J.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2017

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