Grim question

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Khan, Jan 9, 2006.

  1. Khan

    Khan New Member

    Did anyone ever hear a final casualty report for Hurricane Katrina? With all the wild speculation at first I'm wondering where the real number landed.
  2. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Don't know if it is final yet. They just found a body the other day in NOLA. However, it is much, much lower than the early irrational screaming indicated.

    Since the vast majority of them were elderly I am waiting for people to start accusing the Bush administration of hating the elderly....
  3. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    DTechie, you're doing a heck of a job.
  4. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    As of 12/20/05, known fatalities are 1,336. But more than 4,000 people are still reported missing, so this number may be low. Data from this NHC report:
  5. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Not my job...

    Typical response from someone who casts aspersions on people based on little or no justification but doesn't like it when the comments are turned against your own beliefs.

    Let's be honest John, you are a screaming liberal and do not hesitate to attack those who you feel do not agree with your personal political beliefs. Your studies in mills and in your PhD topic undoubtedly make you an expert in those fields but it isn't just in those areas that you limit your condemnations. I, for one, am sick of being labelled by people based on political affiliations and you are one of the worst offenders on this board. I refuse to give you a pass based on the eminence some here choose to assign you.

    Look at your many, many posts on this board condemning others before you have the nerve to critique my posts. You specifically in the past posted threads attacking Americans as racists and made the claim during Katrina that Bush ignored NOLA because it was predominately black. Neither are your posts always even handed or moderate in tone. You come on and issue blanket condemnations and then choose to be affronted when called on it.

    Just to be blunt, criticising people who used the Katrina situation to further their own political agenda is no more disresepectul than you were in making generalized claims based on government reactions to the emergency.

    Oops, have I criticized one of the untouchables on this board?

    As for the missing, the vast majority of them are considered to be duplicated MP reports or people who just don't know they are considered missing so they have not made a point of notifying someone. Some may actually want to be missing (sex offenders, etc.) Some will actually be deceased but that is believed to be a small fraction of those still listed as missing.
  6. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Re: Not my job...

    The National Center for Missing Adults agrees that most of the "missing" are probably alive. However, they estimate that approximately 1,300 of the missing lived in heavily-damaged areas, or were disabled, and therefore may in fact be dead. So based on the available data -- which are admittedly incomplete and imperfect -- it's not crazy to suggest that the total death toll may have exceeded 2,000. But we may never know for sure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2006
  7. Charles

    Charles New Member

    I like to think there are no preferred members on this board. Over the past five years I have felt free to disagree with anyone, including John and several other more prolific posters.
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I don't know that they will ever have a final absolute number. There's always going to questions about what heppened to people out in the remote bayous.

    But all in all, the death toll was extremely low, considering. The hurried pre-storm evacuations were very successful in saving lives in an area stretching from N.O. to Mobile, home to more than 2 million residents.

    The real impact of the hurricane probably was property damage, not casulties. It looks like more than half the housing stock in the city of New Orleans will have to be bulldozed.

    How many people are living there now? Something like 150,000? Out of 550,000 or something pre-Katrina? (That ignores the suburbs, where lots of additional people lost homes.) Extrapolate that out to all the businesses and economic activity that was decimated or ceased entirely, and it's amazing that the country as a whole weathered this disaster as well as it did. The Gulf Coast was rocked, and you wouldn't know it in California or New York.

    Probably close to a million people were displaced by this, many permanently. One of America's most historic and culturally vibrant metropolitan areas was virtually silenced. That's big.

    New Orleans will be back. I have faith in that. But will it be the old jazzy bare-breasted N.O. that we all knew and loved, sauntering down the street with cocktail in hand? Or will the new rebuilt city lose its character and become some new squeaky-clean caricature of its old self?
  9. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

  10. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Re: Re: Not my job...

    Not to quibble but even if it is 700 out of 4000 that is still the vast majority of them are alive. Regardless, even 1300 was too many when it isn't that difficult to live in a manner to survive hurricanes.

    I do not want to sound callous here but lets look at the facts of Katrina. If one drinks and drives and kills themselves in an accident people say, "just thank god they didn't take someone with them". They (rightfully) have little or no sympathy because the person made a decision to drink and drive. However, if you live in a known hurricane flood plain and refuse to evacuate after numerous warnings to do so and are then killed, people seem to think it was not their fault when it most certainly was. Agreed, it wasn't everyones fault, the old, infirm and young had no choice and many suffered for it. As I pointed out, those seem to be the majority of the victims so it is appropriate to mourn their passing and demand it never happen again. However, many died from willful ignorance on their and the governments (at all levels) part. Now, people seem to be lining up to say it is the governments job to protect people from their own irresponsibility?

    Worse is the controversy which is ongoing about rebuilding in the same areas which suffered during Katrina. Come on, haven't we learned our lesson? Right now we see La. and Ms. politicians lobbying to pad relief bills with millions of dollars for pork totally unrelated to Katrina relief. You have people demanding the right to rebuild in the exact same spot they lost the last home. The NOLA government seems more concerned with the departure of their reliable democratic voters than the fact a lot of them are better off in the cities where they evacuated to and have nothing to come home to (which was little more than they had before they left). The sordid list goes on and, personally, I am sick of it. If you say so, though, you are condemned as being either callous, racist or both. We need to learn our lessons; rebuild where it is safe; and provide for those that are displaced and nothing more. Giving Louisiana 2.5 million dollars for research into the uses of sugar cane is not disaster relief!!!!

    We are condemened to repeat katrina again if we do not learn the lessons she and her predecessors should have taught us.....
  11. Khan

    Khan New Member

    Thanks CalDog.
  12. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Dear DTechBA:

    You may be right.


    John Bear,
    Screaming liberal who casts aspersions on people based on little or no justification and doesn't like it when the comments are turned against my own beliefs.
  13. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    It takes character...

    It takes character to admit one may be wrong. I hope that I can do the same. Peace.....
  14. Re: It takes character...

    How much character does it take to admit that YOU might be wrong? In 99% of what you say?
  15. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    To me that reads like a nasty comment and putting a smiley on it doesn't change my impression. There are people who will try to insult you and they feel that if they do it in the form of a joke then that makes it alright. It doesn't.
  16. Denver

    Denver Member

    Living in New Orleans and having been in politics here for over 20 years I get to talk to a lot of people. From the number of volunteers I talked to who had boats in areas such as the 9th Ward (which was the subject of a lot of TV coverage) and St. Bernard (which was harder hit but impossible for TV crews to get to) there is a good chance that some of our folks got swept out to the sea/river. I also know of at least four families that are still looking for loved ones that were in these areas. Do I think the toll is higher? Yes. Do I think we will ever find all of our people? Probably not.

    I would like to ask my fellow contributors to keep us in your thoughts. The next few years are going to be difficult for all of us here.
  17. Well gee Einstein! It WAS a nasty comment.... and there are many here who will agree that the target was most deserving of it.

    That being said, me and DTechBA go back a long ways on trading around barbs.... all in good fun.

    It is guys like you, Mr. Tracey (moderator or not), who take the fun out of debate.... too prudish, too uptight, and too self-important to let your emotions fly once in a while, unless it is to take on "easy targets" - like provacateurs such as myself in your self-appointed (or otherwise appointed) role as guardian of a rather narrow definition of propriety on this board...
  18. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Re: Re: It takes character...

    99% huh. Look at your posts first. They're laughers.....
  19. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member


    We here in the heartland do want to help NOLA out. I, and many others, are extremely saddened that so many people all over the south lost their lives and/or their homes. Many of us, my family inclued, have donated time or money to help.

    However, remind people ther that we expect our hard earned tax dollars to be spent wisely and as cleanly as possible. To demand so is not meant as any kind of smear against the people of NOLA or other damaged areas but is pure common sense. However, lately, it seems if many take it as criticism of them personally....
  20. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Never mind....

    It is Carl here. Like an obsteperous child you roll your eyes and ignore most of his comments. Someday he will grow up and wise up and can take his place in society. Until then, we wiser adults ignore him.....:D

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