french/FRANCE VAE/PLAR prior learning degrees bait: be careful

Here i thought i'd post some wrap-up for a discussion you may find here:
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16050

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13336

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I am doing this hoping to prevent the spread of some newly enhanced version of the UK or "exotic" degree mill loophole.

You may remember for ages degree mills would thrive sailing the "UK" waters of "private institution devoted to prior/lifetime learning assessments ".
We all know how (mis)quoted the UK education act, 1982 used to be ( " recognition of foreign degrees is left solely to the recipient instance " ).
Later they'd sail the waters of "exotic" accreditation.
Once the UK authorities tried to restrict those practices, degree mills relocated to more tropical climates.

These schemes have something in common: they all exploit some bare truth ( " there ARE laws addressing the PLAR issue " ) to lure prospective clients in, who have no idea about the check&balances of the proposed jurisdiction.

The french embassy told me this kind of trick is being pulled even about France.

Let's make a point:
PRIOR/LIFETIME LEARNING PROVISIONS ARE IN PLACE AT A N Y UNIVERSITY WHATSOEVER.
They have a say about PLAR; about exceptionally gifted individuals etc.
You do NOT need Cannibal island's principality nor France to find such provisions.
Your local canadian, british or german university does.
That usually involves time consuming & extenuating procedures; probate in front of committees & usually the university reserves the right to demand more.
THERE ARE NO UNIVERSITIES ONLY/ESPECIALLY DEVOTED TO PLAR ACTIVITIES. .
There may be committees at a national level for specific purposes ( usually for applications needing special professional licenses ).

Now a side note for the USA: in Europe ( say Italy, Germany, France etc ) whatever you get is from the S T A T E ( in Canada provinces take that place ).
Only State universities exist + perhaps a bunch of old private ones, but each strictly conforming to guidelines from the competent ministry ( regionally Laendern in Germany; Nationwide in Italy & France ).
In Italy private universities are not "whole" universities: they operate mainly in one field ( ex: economics/MBA, like Bocconi; economics/social sciences, like LUISS; one exception being Cattolica featuring even medicine school & humanities ).


In Europe exist no "accreditation councils" private in nature; there is no "religious exemption".

PLAR provisions may exist at a nationwide legal level ( ex VAE french law ); yet the application of such general norm is of each university's concern.
University are state chartered & funded ( In Italy even private ones heavily rely on public funding ).

Are there truly "private & independent ones ": Y E S.
In Italy & elsewhere you have D O Z E N S of branches of foreign outfits, moreless "accredited" in their home jurisdiction.
The problem with such institutions is that the hosting country just ignores them.
They typically franchise at some other institution's premises.
They are N O T subject to local authorities' demands; YET THEIR DEGREES ARE UNRECOGNIZED.

There is much talk about the Lisbon declaration; the EEC degree directive etc.
Let me tell you BY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE that ITALY, FRANCE & other countries just fail to apply them in most cases.
UNLESS BILATERAL BINDING AGREEMENTS ARE IN PLACE, there is little one can do.
They just have to apply to local universities for a degree equipollence procedure from scratch; or to start ( expensive ) court cases in european courts.

in the posts mentioned above i cited links to sources for any french official governmental release: go seek your entry there.

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad/RechercheExperteJorf.jsp

you'll find even links to approved universities' directories etc.

http://www.education.gouv.fr/sup/univ.htm

if it isn't there, it doesn't officially exist.

 

here isofficial response i got from the french education ministry.
I contacted them through their website & they forwarded me to another authority, whose reply i quote here:

L'université francophone robert de Sorbon est un établissement privé.Les diplômes de cet établissement ne sont pas des diplômes nationaux.Nous recommandons aux personnes intéressées par le démarche VAE et les diplômes français de s'adresser directement aux établissements publics français ou écoles privés décernant un diplôme reconnu par état.
Saliha Abdellatif

it therefore appears RDS is not an institution granting state recognized degrees, hence de facto about rubbish.

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TRANSLATION
for those who don't understand french

THE FRENCH SPEAKING UNIVERSITY RDS IS A PRIVATE OUTFIT.
DEGREES GRANTED/BESTOWED BY THIS INSTITUTION ARE NOT ISSUED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT.
WE URGE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE VAE PROCEDURE AND FRENCH DEGREES TO APPLY DIRECTLY AT STATE SCHOOLS OR PRIVATE SCHOOLS AUTHORIZED TO GRANT DEGREES RECOGNIZED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT.

 

Here is my response I received

Dear Sir,

I have just had the information that the Robert de Sorbon School is not yet authorized by the french government to give public degrees. Therefore you should look for an other university.

Sincerely Yours

Studies Office

Cheers,

George

 

As i guessed, conmen turn their french-only speaking ability into money making business.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turned out such shady operation had ties with other even shadier "initiatives" in that area, including Nigeria money ( & manslaughter ) fraud.
They exploit the ignorance of foreign customs & laws ( same as with the UK ).
They lied about being featured in the french govt gazette and they lied by design as most public archives carry the electronic version of the gazette from a slightly later date.
Preemption & vicious attitude are the rule.

 

an update to the above:
In Italy and in France, besides state schools, one may get "registered" schools, which in Italy come with region accreditation; and in France somewhat like that.
"registered" schools in Italy are very limited in their capacity of imparting/assessing knowledge.
They may be (unfavourably) compared to state-only US schools ( ex CA only or RI only ); and here to high schools.
You may find language schools; pedicurist&beautician schools; typewriting schools, etc: (lower) clerical & (lower) technical nature of the knowledge imparted.
Here nationwide provisions exist to rank these "certificates" for employment purposes.
Their token value is left for appreciation solely to the recipient instance.

You're not dealing with universities; you're not dealing with chartered or recognized outfits, but merely with associations banded to provide some educational service.
Their certificates are USELESS when one wants to talk international equipollence & academic records.

 

The scary part is that this scam seems to target those looking to get into the US with green cards or H1 visa. I wonder if the INS knows about this. The credential evaluator is committing fraud and the authorities should be warned about this.

 

... and at least in the initial stages, the credential evaluator operated the web site, provided the land address in US and banked the money/fees paid!

 

ok, back from scratch.

http://www.education.gouv.fr/vae/default.htm

That's the ministry website.
It says VAE is for everybody no matter what & in order to access the procedure you must get in touch with a prior learning assessing instance
*******
La validation des acquis de l'expérience pour l'accès aux diplômes et titres de l'enseignement supérieur

*******
then you get here:

http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdi...toutes-univ.asp

this is THE list of universities etc authorized by the french ministry to deal with the VAE/PLAR procedure. They're ALL LISTED.NO MENTION OF RDS. NONE


The RDS shill, however, told us earlier they give diddly squat about Paris & its ministries.
These days they're recognized by
http://www.sorbonedu.com/poitiers.jpg

Nevermind.
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdi...iv-aff-acad.asp

Here you can see where you shall apply for your VAE/PLAR according to your "académie" ( like scolar district but on a bigger territory )

Select "poitiers" because our female doctorate told us so.

You get
Universite de Poitiers
Universite la Rochelle

No ENAC, No HEC, No Comoros Islands, nothing.
Once again you're spotted big time, my dear female.

Only french public universities are recognized source of VAE/PLAR validation.
Nowhere
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdi...toutes-univ.asp
is RDS to find &

you notice they all are UNIVERSITIES; not HEC, ENAC or Ecole des Mines (beware of business peddlers & clones trying to mud waters talking about different names for the same thing )

Do you want an odd example:

Polynésie : Université de la Polynésie française Service de la formation continue FAAA - Tahiti (Polynésie Française) Outre-Mer

now my lying Gmail, go back running in circles & playing boo-boo the nazi with whom likes that game: i don't care.

I expect -however- some new trick to be pulled, like the VAE procedure not being anymore the core of RDS activities (perhaps karate or pedicure... ).

I post this second message because i know you hoped i would do in the mud slinging session you (& your newfound allies) started earlier, wishing the unsuspecting american ( your target to raise bucks for your campbell soup..oops Ph.D ) would ignore it bothered by all those moochy & pathetic attempts to diversion.

 

What is this French "VAE" process?

Excuse me, but i think i gave an answer already.
Same as the french ministry site confirms, VAE is PLAR no holds barred.
They say there it's for about anybody who may have at one point or another extensively dealt with a job, even if unpaid, of charitable or nonprofit nature.

La loi de modernisation sociale ( Journal Officiel du 18 janvier 2002) élargit les possibilités de validation diplômante des acquis de l'expérience dans l'enseignement supérieur. L'université peut reconnaître et valider les compétences acquises dans la vie professionnelle pour faciliter l'accès aux diplômes et titres de l'enseignement supérieur.

" the law medernisation sociale gives you more chances to get credit for your prior learning experience when seeking university diplomas. Universities [the public state one authorized to do so] may recognize & accredit your past acquired competences in order to ease the transition to university diplomas. "


How does "VAE" differ, if it does, from long established prior-learning assessments in the United States, such as the exams and portfolios used by Thomas Edison State?

i have no precise idea.
However
They explicitly mention public state universities will take care of the VAE procedure.
Hence it look more like a credit transfer or equipollence procedure than else, anyways here's the french ministry of labour:
http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/1.html

here an extensive list of questions&answers
http://www.travail.gouv.fr/dossiers/vae/questions.html

Basically, VAE is just PLAR with many disclaimers as for what kind of degree you may get; anyways a committee shall deal with it, whose decision is final.

Care to know who may tell you how to get started & whether or not the degree you seek is open to VAE ( not all are ):

OU S'ADRESSER POUR CONNAITRE L'EXISTENCE ET LES MODALITES DE VAE POUR UN DIPLOME PRECIS ?
# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'Education Nationale : Pour le cas du CAP, BEP, Bac Pro, BTS, il faut s'adresser au Rectorat qui dispose d'un service appelé " DAVA " (Direction Académique pour la Validation des Acquis)

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de l'enseignement supérieur, il faut s'adresser à l'Université qui le délivre (Service Formation Continue de l'Université) ou à l'établissement d'enseignement supérieur en cause (ex : service d'orientation du CNAM (Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers, s'il s'agit d'un diplôme du CNAM).

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme de professions sociales ou paramédicales, s'adresser à la DRASS (Direction Régionale des Affaires Sanitaires et Sociales).

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par les Ministères chargés de la Jeunesse et des Sports, s'adresser à la DRJS (Direction Régionale de la Jeunesse et des Sports)

# S'il s'agit d'un diplôme délivré par le Ministère de l'Agriculture, s'adresser à la DRAF(Direction Régionale de l'Agriculture et de la Forêt) ou dans les établissements de l'enseignement supérieur agricole.

# S'il s'agit d'un titre du Ministère chargé de l'Emploi préparé dans les centres de l'AFPA et les centres agréés correspondants, il faut s'adresser à la DRTEFP, à la DDTEFP ou à la DR AFPA.

# S'il s'agit d'un CQP de Branche porté par une Commission paritaire nationale de l'emploi, il faut s'adresser au Secrétariat national de la CPNE qui représente les partenaires sociaux (employeurs et salariés) ou à l'OPCA de Branche (Organisme paritaire collecteur agréé)

# S'il s'agit de titres ou d'autres types de certifications portés par des organismes privés ou publics (chambres consulaires), il faut s'adresser à l'organisme de formation qui délivre le titre ou la certification


what VAE is NOT...

L'équivalence de titres ou de diplômes.
Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes décide des équivalences entre tel ou tel de ses propres diplômes et ceux d'autres autorités. Il convient de s'adresser dans ce cas au Service des Equivalences de l'autorité certificatrice.
Par ex : Rectorat pour les diplômes du Ministère de l'Education Nationale ou pour l'enseignement supérieur, Service des Equivalences de l'Université qui délivre le diplôme.


Une conversion " automatique " de l'expérience en diplôme.
La VAE suppose de suivre une procédure pour faire évaluer et reconnaître l'expérience acquise.
L'évaluation de l'expérience consiste à rassembler différents modes de preuves destinées à démontrer l'expérience acquise et son lien direct avec le contenu du titre ou diplôme visé.
Chaque autorité délivrant des titres ou diplômes définit les conditions de recevabilité de la demande de validation et la procédure à suivre pour accéder à ses certifications.


1 not a degree equipollence/credit transfer option between degrees issued from different sources.
2 not granted & automatic degree on the ground of your past experience. There are many steps to follow to prove you're a suitable candidate and first you have to be accepted into the procedure.

Why is there so much talk about "VAE" being an innovation that the US should accept? What's innovative about it?

It is just PLAR according to the french authorities.
And it is a bait for a few conmen to try some degree mill hunting season like they did with the "UK education act" earlier, then with Liberia, Pakistan, Malaysia ( Marlborough was playing this card ages ago, however ).
In the USA, Canada, etc there are PLAR provisions as well.


Finally, how can all of this stuff be independently verified by an English speaker who doesn't understand French?

I have no idea.
French ministries only answer general points like whether VAE exists and/or whether outfit X is ok.
The implementation is left to french state universities.
Hence you should contact them.


these are the universties authorized to implement VAE procedures:
http://www.dep.u-picardie.fr/confdir/vae/visit-annu/visit-affich-toutes-univ.asp

There is no other outfit authorized to do so ( because as they say, VAE is not just a credit transfer or equipollence procedure ).