France helps Iraqis escape! "Raoul Wallenberg in reverse!"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Orson, May 6, 2003.

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  1. Orson

    Orson New Member

    Bill Gertz reports the following inainity, which ought to interest those of you who'ver doubted my hits on the evils of the French!
    Read this and try defending it!
    --Orson
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    "The French government secretly supplied fleeing Iraqi officials with passports in Syria that allowed them to escape to Europe, The Washington Times has learned.
    "An unknown number of Iraqis who worked for Saddam Hussein's government were given passports by French officials in Syria, U.S. intelligence officials said.
    "The passports are regarded as documents of the European Union, because of France's membership in the union, and have helped the Iraqis avoid capture, said officials familiar with intelligence reports.
    " The French support, which was revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means, angered Pentagon, State Department and intelligence officials in Washington because it undermined the search for senior aides to Saddam, who fled Iraq in large numbers after the fall of Baghdad on April 9.
    "'It made it very difficult to track these people,' one official said.
    A second Bush administration official said, 'It's like Raoul Wallenberg in reverse,' a reference to the Swedish diplomat who supplied travel documents to help Jews escape Nazi Germany in World War II. 'Now you have the French helping the bad guys escape from us.'"
    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030506-32981825.htm
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  2. roysavia

    roysavia New Member

    If this information is correct this proves that the French are assholes and should be kept out of future talks on international security.
     
  3. Charles

    Charles New Member

    Orson,

    You just don't understand. The actions of the French are the necessary response to America's imperial behavior.

    "Gorbachev praised resistance to the war in the U.N. Security Council by Russia, France and Germany, telling reporters the three countries ''showed great responsibility and were correct.''

    ''International law was cast aside,'' the former Soviet leader said. ''The country that made democracy its banner ignored the majority.''

    Gorbachev, calling for the Security Council to take control of postwar Iraq, accused Washington of ''imperial behavior.''

    http://www.boston.com/dailynews/125/world/Gorbachev_says_U_S_cast_aside_:.shtml

    The French are demonstrating a great sense of moral responsibility by helping the dissidents escape their evil U.S. oppressors.

    :D :D :D

    Imagine that - the former leader of the failed evil empire is now lecturing the United States on democracy and international law.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2003
  4. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    If France is giving passports to people responsible for the brutal death of millions, the validity of a French passport to freely cross the borders of Europe would have to be questioned by other members of the European Union.

    Got to love the French. Their dreams of empire have been held back by one thing, their inability to ever win a war.

    At least we don't have to see troops marching through l'arc de triomphe again, singing Deutschland uber Alles. Germans are now sissies too.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The French deny they did it.

    Assuming they did, what did you expect? They opposed the war.

    The U.S. has refused to take their case to the World Court and indict these Iraqis on war crimes charges. It would appear these people are not fugitives from justice. Rather, they are fleeing an invader. (You can argue whether or not the invader is just in such an invasion, but that doesn't change the fact that the U.S. is the aggressor in this "war.")

    The U.S. chose to go it alone (almost). It is naive to expect cooperation after-the-fact.

    Of course, France risks the wrath of the U.S. Why they would do that for a few now-powerless Iraqi officials is beyond me.
     
  6. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    Until there's clearer evidence that the French actually did this, I remain skeptical. Remember that the Syrian government has a lot to gain by passing the buck.

    If the French government did do this, then I have to say that it's a scandal--though not quite on the same level as our government's decision to give Saddam Hussein access to newer and deadlier weapons during the genocidal Anfal Campaign against the Kurds, or to "support" and then abandon the anti-Baath resistance after GW1, which led to tens of thousands of deaths.


    Peace,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2003
  7. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    That's why I don't think the French government did it; it makes no strategic sense. It seems far more likely to me that (assuming the Syrian government hasn't fabricated this whole mess) well-meaning French officials in the region, acting on their own, decided to risk their careers by rescuing individual people from what they thought would be kangaroo courts.

    Before prosecutors indict people, they usually try to establish a motive. If we're going to sit here and criticize the French government, the first thing we should ask ourselves is "What could they hope to gain?" The only scenario I can think of that would favor the Evil French conclusion would be if French officials had been working with the Iraqis and wanted to rescue those Iraqi officials who might turn on France if placed under interrogation. But we already have Tariq Aziz and other officials who would know of any cooperation with France (including Iraqi's U.N. diplomat, who has been sitting here in New York), so that theory doesn't exactly win over Ockham's Razor.


    Cheers,
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    This is either real "sensitive" intelligence information, or else it isn't.

    If it is, then presumably it has some kind of security classification and isn't for outside distribution. So how did Gertz get it? And what is he doing publishing it? At best it's ethically suspect, at worst it's a federal crime.

    If it isn't real intelligence information, then some loose cannon somewhere is feeding Gertz bullshit in order to stir up trouble in our European diplomacy.

    My speculation is that it's somebody in "neo-conservative" circles who is trying to undercut Colin Powell's attempts to smooth the diplomatic waters. Sombody who doesn't want the US compromising with either the UN or the EU.

    Personally I am skeptical, because all of these anonymous leaks come with byzantine agendas as long as your arm.

    It may not have happened at all. Or if it did, we don't have any idea who or what these individuals were. Perhaps they were French agents who had been feeding information to Paris, and France owed them.

    I'd be willing to bet that some Mossad sources were given Israeli protection as well, (but revealing that wouldn't further right-wing agendas, would it?)

    The United States is busily choosing it's own sycophants from among former Iraqi officials as we speak, and promoting them as the country's new leaders.

    This whole thing smells like a turd, for multiple reasons.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2003

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