Is anyone familiar with an foreign education evaluation company called World Education Services -WES- ? Is it reliable or a bogus/ Thank you A.J.
Any organization needs to be a member of NACES for credibility. That sounds like a recognized agency but you need to check the NACES site. The reason I say that is that someone recently posted here a site where the organization sounded similar and claimed to do evaluations *and* offer degrees. Needless to say it was not recognized. Do a yahoo search for "NACES". Another factor to consider is that the organization you need the evaluation for may have a list of ones they will recognize so you need to ensure that whoever you use is NACES recognized and on your employer/school list. North
World Education Services is one of the first of these agencies, along with Educational Credential Evaluators in Wisconsin and International Education Research Foundation in southern California. A reminder, however, that even the reputable agencies do not always agree. WES (and most others) evaluated the Heriot-Watt MBA as equivalent to a regionally accredited American MBA, while ECE said it was not even the equivalent of a Bachelor's degree. (ECE declined to look at either the course materials or the exams; they based their verdict on the fact that a Bachelor's degree was not required, and they were intractable, despite a major effort by the university.) John Bear (who did marketing for the Heriot-Watt MBA between 1991 and 1998)
Individual bias It was the individual running the supposed 'acceditation agency' that decided unilaterally not to recognise the Heriot-Watt University MBA - though it is recognised in every state in the European Union, every one of the 54 members of the Commonwealth, and many other major countries, e.g., Russia, China, including Taiwan and Hong Kong, Norway, most Middle Eastern countries (Arab plus Israel) and Latin America. Given thet EVERY university in the UK, accredited by Royal Charter (awarded only by the UK government to keep out degree mills), and including Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh and Glasgow universities, accept students without first degrees - and in most cases do not examine them - but Heriot-Watt in addition requires that they pass two core final examinations (and, since, July, that they pass the Post-graduate Certificate in Business Administration), the decisions of this individual suggests he is of a 'dull' intellectual capacity, who could not pass any of our examinations (3 hrs duration, no choice of questions, invigilated, i.e., proctored by independent personnel). 'Against stupidy, even the Gods battle in vain'
Professor Kennedy: "It was the individual running the supposed 'acceditation agency' that decided unilaterally not to recognise the Heriot-Watt University MBA..." John Bear: Alas, that 'individual,' Jim Frey, is the founder of this entire industry and widely recognised as its 'grand old man.' What is so odd and so annoying to me is that he and I agree on 99+% of matters in the arena of evaluation, but he seems utterly intractable on the Heriot-Watt matter, I know not why. Once, at an AACRAO convention, I attempted to hand him a Heriot-Watt MBA textbook and sample exams, but he declined the offer. People in comparable roles at two other credential evaluation services told me that he had 'suggested' that their services go along with his view, but they politely declined, although one did change their wording on Heriot-Watt from "Comparable to a regionally accredited American MBA" to "Comparable to a regionally accredited American Master's degree in business." I have written elsewhere about the survey I did, 6 or 7 years ago, in which a man with rather unusual credentials* paid for an evaluation from 10 or 12 of the evaluation services. The reports were sufficiently different that I began encouraging my readers to 'shop around' among the services if they were not satisfied with a given report. __________ * Home schooled in India; various independent study work in South America; a chartered accountant in Canada; two good degrees, lots of well-regarded certifications, and never set foot in a classroom.
Given the original topic of this thread, it's interesting to note that Frey was the first full-time employee at WES. He later left WES (bringing with him a number of other WES employees) to found ECE.
Science and anecdote We have a thick file here confirming your experience on Mr Frey. 'Grand old man' or not, he is obviously praised but in my view is not worthy of praise. He is plain wrong. That he talks sense on 99 per cent of other issues does not mitigate his error on this one. On the grounds that he disregards Heriot-Watt on the spurious grounds that, allegedly, we do not 'require' a Bachelor degree - a universal practice in all UK universities accredited by Royal Charter - it must follow that all UK universities, including Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and St Andrews (all older than the United States of America) must also have their Masters degrees declared as below US Bachelor degree standards. As such a assessment would be patently absurd - and would denude US universities of signifcant numbers of their faculties - it follows that Mr Frey is wrong in his first assessment. His refusal to look at the evidence (published course materials, content and rigour of our examinations, and so on) shows that he is acting in an unscientific manner, either because he has other evidence from somewhere unknown to the rest of us and which he will not share, or he is 'dull', prejudiced, acting on anecdote or otherwise motivated. Having planted his flag so firmly in an unwise manner, he has invested too much personal emotion in his original decision to change it now. Stubborness is a feature of many a 'grand old man' - usually a prelude to promotion to a 'honorary' rather than an executive role. In science, and partricularly in the cognitive process of evaluation, anecdote is insufficient, as are first impressions (which sometimes last for years, e.g., the sun going round the earth). It is always well to remember that the plural of anecdote is not data. About 12 per cent of EBS MBA graduates do not have bachelor degrees, the rest of course do (twenty per cent of our MBA graduates have Masters and PhD dgrees). The 12 per cent are the survivors of many more who failed to get through our requirement of passing two final examinations in core subjects before they can join the MBA programme. By the same test of passing our exams, the only valid measure of performance, nearly as many with bachelor degrees who matriculate to join the programme, also fail to meet the universal requirement of passing our exams. By this test of evidence, not anecdote, Mr Frey does not pass the scientific standard of knowing the difference between asserting first impressions and testing the hypothesis implied by them.
Re: Individual bias The problem with ECE seems to extend beyond the sins of the founder. I had Scottish "Highers" in Math and Physics evaluated by ECE at 5 semester hours apiece 1st/2nd year college US equivalent. A subsequent 3-year (at that time, now 2-year) HND Applicable Math, for which the entry requirements were the two Highers listed above (+3 "O" grades), was evaluated at exactly the same level as the Highers. Apparently no academic progress was made during that 3-year period. From the correspondence that followed their evaluation, it was clear to me that ECE would not recognize a genuine foreign equivalent qualification if it jumped up and bit them in the rear. I saw no evidence they had ever even looked at the content of the program they claimed to have assessed. Quality, rigor, and professionalism, are not terms that immediately spring to mind when considering this outfit. If there was ever a convincing argument in favor of government regulation and oversight of this industry, ECE is it. Lawrie Miller http://goecities.com/BA_in_4_Weeks .
furthermore, ECE´s "customer service" SUCKS. I made two enquiries (one by e-mail, and by via their own web-formular a few weeks later), and received only one answer, which was not an answer at all, but only: "please send money and application form, then we will evaluate" great service, hm? t.
I had experiences with both WES and ECE. When I thought I would enroll at TESC, I had my Italian university credits evaluated by WES. Afterward, when I changed my mind and enrolled at Excelsior College, I had to send all my papers to ECE, because Excelsior – nobody was able to explain to me why – doesn’t accept WES’ evaluations. That shift cost me some dozens bucks and several credits, since the very same Italian credits were worth 56 US credits according to WES and only 48 according to ECE. Apart from that, I had no major problem dealing with ECE – they don’t work (or answer to e-mails) at the speed of light, but are efficient. Before sending your papers and money, you’d rather check with your US college which agency’s evaluation will be accepted. Bests, Giancarlo
Which RA/DETC schools accept any of the members of NACES for evaluation? Which RA/DETC schools do their own evaluation? Which RA/DETC schools accept any evaluation from any agencies (recognized or not)?
