Federal role in degree approvals

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Alan Contreras, Aug 25, 2004.

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  1. Jack Tracey

    Jack Tracey New Member

    It seems that I have a bit of an argument with this study. They measure the change in the ratio of average college costs (by state) to average family income. As the ratio changes through time this (supposedly) becomes a measure of college affordability. Obviously this is based on the assumption that Jimmy's or Sally's parents are paying for their college expenses. It would seem to have little relevance to me though, especially when I was in my undergrad days. I worked full-time, went to school part-time and lived a life that was bare-bones because I had made up my mind that it would happen. College costs are increasing much faster than the rate of inflation. This is an undeniable fact. However, does this mean that it's impossible to go to school? No. Get a job, get a loan, go to night school. I do not believe that the higher education system is obligated to provide college education to everyone. Harsh? Welcome to the real world.
    Jack
     
  2. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    This information is directly from the below:

    Commission on Colleges
    Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
    1866 Southern Lane
    Decatur, Georgia 30033-4097
    DUES AND FEES
    - Policy Statement -
    All member and candidate institutions shall pay dues and fees in accordance with those authorized by the Commission
    on Colleges and approved by the College Delegate Assembly.
    Statement of dues shall be issued by the Commission and shall be payable upon receipt of the Commission=s invoice by
    the member or candidate institution. The institution will be billed by the SouthernAssociation of Colleges and Schools following the visit. An institution's invoice for dues will include any additional
    balance owed to the Commission which is sixty days overdue.
    Membership and Candidate Dues.

    Dues assessments for member and candidate institutions are based on the following formula:
    Dues = Fixed Cost + Full-Time Enrollment Equivalent Variable + Educational & General Expenditure Variable
    If an institution=s E & G total does not exceed $4,000,000, then that institution=s dues amount includes only the fixed
    cost amount added to the full-time enrollment equivalent variable amount.

    Fees for Applicant Institutions
    Because of staff and Commission involvement with applicant institutions beginning at the time an institution submits its
    application, the Commission adopted the following application fee structure:
    For institutions located in the United States:
    Application Fee $ 10,000
    Candidacy Fee 2,500
    Approved: College Delegate Assembly, December 1998
    Revised for the Principles of Accreditation: December 2003
    Revised: Executive Council, June 2004
     
  3. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Re: Re: Re: BIll

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2004
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    60 credits worth of "life experience" credit is enough for it to be a diploma mill, assuming they don't test or use portfolioto to verify it. Twelve credits for a term paper may or may not be reasonable based on requirements. Based on them apparently dividing the graduatation requirements in half, I'd guess that most of the term papers turned in are a joke for 12 credits.
     
  5. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: BIll

    If you want a degree mill degree so bad, go get it. No debate here, just a lot of rationalization. Have fun.
     
  6. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Dave -

    Please answer one question for me. Do you consider every postsecondary school that is not accredited by one of the recognized accrediting agencies listed with the US DOE to be diploma mills?

    Assuming you attended college, did you ever have a class(es) that all you had to take was a midterm and final exam? and A course(s) were all you did was to have to write a paper? I pose this question to all of you who read this post. I am very curious to hear the comments. Please be honest.

    While working on my graduate degree, I had a required philosophy course that required two readings with two reaction papers and a final exam. It was 6000 level course.

    There were also a few classes in my undergraduate program were we were only required to take a midterm and final. The exams were indepth and time limited. So we had to know our stuff.

    Do you know there are many RA accredited schools that give some work experience (that is verifiable) credits towards a degree?

    And, I have my Master's (from a RA accredited school), so I do not need a degree that bad. I also have 12 credit hours at the doctoral level at UNC Chapel. Not towards a degree though.

    I am not supportive of diploma mills. So I do not know why you are so adament in implying that I am. So let me quote to you, "I am not supportive or sympathetic of diploma mills."


    Robert
     
  7. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Recognized Institutional Accrediting Organizations

    (Updated as of August, 2004)

    CHEA recognized organizations must meet CHEA eligibility standards (www.chea.org/recognition/recognition.asp). Accreditors exercise independent judgment about whether to seek CHEA recognition. For USDE recognition, accreditation from the organization is used by an institution to establish eligibility to participate in federal student aid or other federal programs (www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/index.html). Some accreditors cannot be considered for USDE recognition because they do not provide access to federal funds. Other accreditors have chosen not to pursue USDE recognition.

    Because CHEA affiliation and USDE recognition depend on a range of factors, readers are strongly cautioned against making judgments about the quality of an accrediting organization and its institutions based solely on CHEA or USDE status. Additional inquiry is essential. If you have questions about the CHEA or USDE recognition status of an accreditor, please contact the accrediting organization.

    This chart is updated when the CHEA Board of Directors recognizes an accrediting organization and when the United States Secretary of Education recognizes an accrediting organization.

    Source: CHEA website
     
  8. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    No, I do not consider all unaccredited schools diploma mills. I do, however, recognize the vast majority of unaccredited schools ARE.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2004
  9. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    You have stated this several times and then gone on to rationalize about schools that are at best substandard and more accurately degree mills. If that is what you want, go for it. If you want a degree to be proud of I would recommend an accredited school.
     
  10. c.novick

    c.novick New Member


    No test or portfilio assessment that I'm aware of. They start every student off that way. I don't know what the requirements are for the term paper, which is called a bachelors final, and there is no dedicated professor.

    I also find it interesting that the courses run 6 credits each, instead of three. I don't know how extensive they are.

    Not a program I would recommend.
     
  11. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Dave

    Thanks for the reply. And, I have only mentioned two schools that are not accredited. So I do not have a list posted on here. I am thinking about registering for a course or two at some of these schools that are in question, (not the known diploma mills). This spring semester, I may enroll in a graduate research class and use this as my topic. I have a few ideas about stating my null hypothesis. It may just be worth the money for the courses and publish my findings.

    Best regards to you and yours

    Robert
     
  12. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    BIll Huffman

    Hey Bill Huffman

    I was doing a little looking around on the net about diploma mills. WOW,,, I came across a report that you aurthored.

    It is very informative and I can appreciate your points of view about unaccredited institutions and accreditation agencies not listed with USDE. Mighty good points in your information.

    I will agree with you in this article. Depsite what you conceive about my opinions, our thoughts on this matter are more a like than different. It is our approach and somantics that may be getting in the way.

    I continue to sport my opinion that the USDE should set forth minimal quality standards for all schools to follow and that it be the responsibility of the individual states to ensure that all colleges and universities operating with their state borders be licensed and their programs approved before the institutions could grant degrees. This would assist in an interstate acceptance of degrees without worrying if it is from a substandard school. In addition, Those institutions that wish could continue to get the Regional Accreditaitions. Who knows, after the states mandate that all schools operating in their state borders offer a quality education, they may eventually choose to get an accreditation from a credible agency. I still believe this process will stop the diploma mill operations in each state.

    I appriciate your article.

    Best regards

    Robert
     
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I believe that I understand your points. What I don't understand is how it really differs from what we have today. Today it is accreditation that indicates that the school is part of the legitimate higher education system in the USA. If everything that you stated were to come true would that change any?
     
  14. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Yes, I do believe that it would change in that it would require states such as Wyoming that has loopholes in the educational system to change legislation that would not permit diploma mills or substandard schools to operate. It would also ensure that all schools operating within a state is meeting a set standard that would be transferrable across states. As it is now, there are no minimal standards for the quality of postsecondary education across the USA. It is up to each individual state. The accreditation process is strictly voluntary. I would like to see a standard system in place in addition to the accreditation agencies that would not be voluntary if a school of higher learning wishes to provide educational services to anyone.
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I'll grant you that.

    I believe that we may disagree here. Unaccredited school degrees would be no more transferable than they are today. Accredited school degrees are more transferable but even that is still done a case by case basis. There's no reason that I can see that unaccredited degrees would be made more useful or have more utility. The assurance that a school is supplying standard degrees is accreditation in the USA. State approval is a failure as long as you can have a state like California that allows PWU to truthfully claim state approval.
     
  16. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Bill

    I don't know that much about PWU. Only what I have read in different postings. Would you catch me up to speed on that one. I have read issues regarding PWU in other discussion sites and they have not been favorable.

    Robert
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2004
  18. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    The postings don't give specifics. Is there any way that you could guide me in more articles?
     
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    bikerseven2003, I am afraid that I don't understand your question. If you click on the link to the TV channel article.

    http://cbs2.com/specialassign/local_story_127143143.html

    You find the text of the article. On that same page you can click on the link for the most amusing video of the broadcast.

    If I've misunderstood your request then please clarify.
     
  20. bikerseven2003

    bikerseven2003 New Member

    Thanks, you gave me the info I was looking for.
     

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