Fastest PhD

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Dan Cooper, Jan 4, 2005.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Fastest PhD

    Or this: link to Dr. Ellen Ochoa's bio. She was pretty fast. ;)
     
  2. sulla

    sulla New Member

    Dan,

    The fastest RA doctoral program that I know is Touro.

    If you have a good idea of what you want, and you think you can have a dissertation in 6 months, then you can finish a Touro PhD in 18 months or a year and a half.


    S
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2005
  3. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    What's the degree purpose?

    Dan,

    Any degree is a bullet point on a cv or resume. How will that bullet be perceived by potential academic employers on your resume?

    If you have been in a community college as an adjunct with an excellent teaching record and have been offered a full-time position if you agree to get any RA PhD, that's one thing. Or, perhpas you have extensive and valuable industry experience that will be very positive to employers at small 4 year college business schools, such that that bullet might just be any RA doctoral business degree - a hole punched into a card. Or, you might be younger with less managerial and/or leadership experience on your resume, making the bullet more important.

    These degrees are like investments, which must be tailored to meet your particular strategic purpose.

    If you need a hole punched by an RA program, Northcentral's the fastest out there I'd guess and has no residency. It's less expensive, higher risk in as much as NCU is a young company, and less known. If you get a full 30 hour waiver with your MBA, you'll end up with 51 hours, which is 9 courses and 24 hours in methods and dissertation. I'm sitting on an acceptance from them now and have not decided, but I do like the fact that the 9 courses that I take are what I want to take, with no fluffy management courses. Management is a fine subject, but I like finance.

    Good luck.
     
  4. DRMarion

    DRMarion New Member

    That's a good question. I enjoy learning, I like a challenge--and let me also say that I believe that the EBS DBA curriculum is unique--the focus is on implementation of strategy. So the curiculum really interests me and it supports my career.

     
  5. Andy Borchers

    Andy Borchers New Member

    Re: LTU professional accreditation plus RA

    Janko - LTU and all of its degree programs are regionally accredited by NCA. As for professional accreditation - many, but not all programs are accredited. Engineering programs are ABET, Architecture is professionally accredited (by NAAB, NASAD and FIBER) and the MBA program is ACBSP. However, other programs like MSIS and the new DBA and DMIT aren't professionally accredited. There is no professional accreditor for MSIS and the DBA and DMIT are too new to have any graduates yet.

    Regards - Andy

     
  6. Dan Cooper

    Dan Cooper New Member

    Northcentral and Touro seem to offer convenient and affordable degree programs but since they haven't been around very long, and are virtual institutions I'm not sure how they would be viewed in my line of work.

    I'm currently a senior executive, and I later plan to venture into consulting work, and possibly teach part-time at a B&M University. I need a degree that will give me the utility to do this.

    I may have no choice but to go with a foreign doctorate because the options at US based institutions are some what limited The EBS DBA seems to be about the best of them, as it relates to my current work. In addition some of the Australian Universities may be a possiblity.

    I need more than just a bullet point on my CV. If I'm going to be putting this much time and effort into getting the degree, I want something that will be respected and that I can use.
     
  7. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member


    I think this also depends on your MBA. Is your MBA from a top tier University (e.g. Harvard, Stanford)?

    If you have a degree from a top tier University, there is no point to do a degree from NCU or any low tier University as it won't have much added value to your CV.


    If you want to go for a top tier and well respected degree with tons of graduates in faculty positions, you should take a look into Henley, Glasgow or Manchester in the UK. These schools have DL DBAs that can be completed in the US.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2005
  8. oko

    oko New Member

    If you are looking forward to teaching in a school after graduation you must be prepared to offer much more than your PhD regardless of the school you got your degree and the mode of instruction. You must be published and well regarded in your profession to even get an interview. There are not too many openings in academia. Also it depends on the courses you wish to teach and the availability of candidates for such position.

    It is inaccurate to infer that Touro and or Northcentral will not offer you such opportunity given your background. I am student of Touro and given the background of students in my program, I can safely say that close to 50% of current students at TU are current university instructors trying to obtain their degree for tenure ship. I am sure they would not be attending TUI if their schools would not consider them for tenure upon graduation. One of my classmate’s tuition is paid by her university at which she teaches. I am sure it is probably the same at Northcentral.

    Over the years I have learnt to disregard such things as "top universities, top tier, low tier, ranking" etc used to describe schools. No one can possibly rank schools. They carry nothing in the work place. It may only be meaningful within the first six months of graduation in a few cases. I have repeatedly said here that in the early eighties when I started my undergraduate program, I was told attending a historically black college was low tiered, Seven-Eleven Store management candidate, no job etc schools. Fifteen years later with a six figured income, graduate degree to match and other professional accomplishments, no one is repeating what they told me at the time. I have also posted in this forum in the past a Washington, DC think tank study that concluded that more than ten years after graduation there is virtually no difference in salary between Ivy League degree and non Ivy. In some cases, non ivy actually made more. The study questioned whether fees at Ivy schools were worth it.

    Walden is a DL school. They have a tenured professor at John Hopkins, National Defense University and others. If you are sure of yourself (I am sure you do) and well accomplished you can obtain any accredited degree and do anything with it.

    I get unsolicited (actual) adjunct faculty offer at least twice a year and I have not accepted any because I am too busy with work and school and I do not hold any ivy degree. I know of some so called top tier school graduates trying to get adjunct in Wash., DC area with difficult success.

    I do not think you can do Touro PhD in 18 months as suggested in a piece above. I cannot possibly imagine someone completing between 44 and 60 credit hours depending on your Master degree and a dissertation in 18 months. Not the TUI I attend.

    DL is relative new in the US compared to the rest of the world. However, compared to the rest of the world and like most things American it is very advanced as it is delivered by TUI. The entire core courses are live and interactive. You learn, learn and learn some more. You will read, read and read some more. You will get challenging assignments.
    You will be capable of discussing research and research methodology with any one from any school, any where. Take it from me. I work with Ivies on a daily basis.

    The school does not necessarily make a person. A person makes a school. The caliber of students at Touro is comparable to any school any where. At least in my program.

    I am in TUI to advance my career. Upon retirement, I will consult and teach part time in any school. Believe me. I will accomplish all of them. Hopefully, I will still be here to tell it all. Good luck.


    Oko
     
  9. Dan Cooper

    Dan Cooper New Member

    My MBA is from a 2nd tier school. My DBA doesn't have to be from a top tier, but I would prefer to get it from a well known/respected 2nd tier University.

    Most of the so called "top tier" universities are overrated anyway. There are alot of other respected universities out there that are close to or equal in rigor.
     
  10. Dan Cooper

    Dan Cooper New Member

    I would have no problem hiring a person that got their degree from touro over a harvard grad any day of the week. I look at what they have accomplished and their experience. Unfortunately there are still hiring managers out there that frown upon degrees earned at a distance and don't look at the bigger picture.

    I'm sure there some teaching positions that can be obtained with a touro degree, I'm not denying that. I just want to have maximized utility in using mine. Getting it from an established B&M institution would allow that.
     
  11. Messagewriter

    Messagewriter New Member

    B & M

     
  12. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Foreign PhD

    Dan,
    Including a foreign school on your CV as a consultant would allow you to say you have an international perspective. Might be a good thing for a consultant. There are several programs in Europe that have DBA's that require only 1 or 2 visits. If you have the time they would be worth the effort. Grenoble in France also has a program.
    DTechBA
     
  13. Dan Cooper

    Dan Cooper New Member

    Re: B & M

    Like you I was contemplating going into a full residence B&M program, but I wasn't ready to leave my job yet.

    It will be interesting to see over the next few years how many of the traditional B&M schools start to offer their doctoral degrees by distance(even with short residences). Until then I guess we will just have to settle for the less respected virtual universities, or the foreign alternatives.

    Do you already have your mind set on northcentral or are you looking at any others?

    Some of the British/australian/SA PhD/DBA programs seem to be pretty flexible. In addition I've seen a quite a few faculty in the US that have doctorates from some of these foreign schools.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2005
  14. oko

    oko New Member

    What I am trying to say is having a Harvard degree does not guarantee employment. I am an avid reader of Newsweek. A regular column there “My Turn” once published an essay of a young Harvard graduate who had difficulty finding a job. She eventually settled for a community service position in Boston. It underscores the general belief that people falls over their heels for such degrees. There are hiring managers out there who would still not hire blacks and minorities regardless of the degree they hold. Should minorities stop trying?
    I am not saying you must go to Touro or any DL school. That is your personal choice to make. Saying one or two ill informed manager’s decision is the norm is inaccurate. There are more people holding University of London degrees and High School equivalency diplomas than there are actual people who went to the B&M location in London. They have all done well.

    My mission here is to prevent sweeping statements often made here from preventing those who may wish to pursue their accredited degrees from doing so anywhere. At the end of the day, you make the same money. Published research after research has confirmed that and I have posted some of such findings here in the past on degreeino.

    Just on a tangent, I know a Walden graduate who manages multi million dollar grants to universities and schools. Schools fall over their heels to get this grant. Do you suppose that when this individual decides to teach at a school tomorrow, he would not get it?

    If degree discrimination were as accurate as some would like us to believe, Ronald Reagan would not have become President since he got his degree from Eureka College. He first would not have gotten his break that took him to Sacramento and then to Washington. How many have heard of Eureka College? Secretary O'Neil would not have become Secretary of the Treasury. I can go on and on. If Secretary O’Neil wants to teach at Harvard today he would get it. The former governor of Minnesota Mr. Jesse Ventura now teaches at Harvard

    My mission here is to oppose any notion that you must have Harvard or the like’s degree to succeed or DL degree is less valued. I disagree with all of them because there are too many professionals, friends and families with incredible success stories for me to believe such misguided assertions.

    Finally there are too many reports even on this forum of people moving up incredibly in their professional and academic life with unaccredited and sometimes fake degrees. If these people can move up so high with these questionable degrees, I see no reason why people with degrees from properly accredited schools cannot make it.

    Often when people are not qualified in the first place they blame it on their degree or school. A few weeks ago, someone posted in another forum here at degreeinfo that his UoP degree was rejected by Citibank. Upon analysis of his post, it was evident he was not qualified for the position since additional requirements were needed. Simply having an advanced degree does not eliminate other requirements.

    I know a multimillion dollar businesswoman who is a PhD Student at TUI. She lives in Phidelphia area. She sold her business for millions to another business and waited for no compete clause to elapse and stared another business which has quickly gone into the multimillion dollar range again. The business is health care related. If this woman wanted to teach tomorrow, several universities even Ivy league would want here since she is nationally known. Unfortunately I cannot use her name here.

    For the record, I am not making a case for Touro or any other school. They can make their own case. I am making a case for those individuals with accredited degrees regardless of the mode of acquisition of those degrees. I once posted here how we passed over several candidates for a prestigious government position to select an Excelsior graduate based on his accomplishments. One of which was passing his professional exam in the top 5%.

    Good day.
     
  15. DTechBA

    DTechBA New Member

    Undergrad versus Grad

    Let's not kid ourselves. People wouldn't kill themselves to get into the Ivy League if it was a waste of time. My daughter attended a Tier 2 school but is opting for the best schools in her field for her graduate studies. (Actually, while her undergrad school was tier 2 overall, it's anthro program is considered top notch).

    It is true that overall where you get an undergrad degree has little impact on your future earnings. The Atlantic Monthly published some of this research a few years ago. However, the research was directed towards undergraduate degrees. If you want to be a teacher and go to Harvard it is unlikely you'll make much more than a teacher from the University of Illinois. However, the study in the AM made the point that the results did not apply to graduate schools, especially the professions. At that level, where you went to school had much greater impact on future earnings. On an average, the better the school is perceived in your field the better are your chances for a job and more money. For example, top law school graduates will graduate to 6 figure salaries but graduates from lower ranked schools will make less than half that. I work for state government as a network administrator and make more than deputy attorney general's do at the AG's office. Yes, some people will be successful already at the time they pursue their PhD or will succeed on their own merits, but it is the average we are talking about and on the average people will look at the elite schools first.

    I once did a quick Internet review of where the professors at B-Schools got their degrees. The professor's at the elite schools overwhelmingly got them from elite schools. However, even at some of the schools with "lesser" reputations they were a large majority as well. Some of those Ivy League's PhD's you see looking for jobs are in fields where there is such oversupply that getting a tenured position is extremely difficult for all graduates in the field regardless of where they graduated. The CHE did a column on a history PhD from the University of Toledo that cut grass for a living.

    I am not saying going to a lesser school is a waste of time. That depends on each of our situations. However, neither should we think that all PhD's or diploma's are perceived alike. They are not.
     
  16. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Possibly I see doc study differently--as a subject to try to master not as a diploma to hang on my wall.

    Having finished the programs of three master's degrees of ascending rigor in the subject of my interest , and even being mostly retired, I still could not complete the research with the South African university in two years. It has taken three to finish.

    But that's OK because the greater motivation is to learn, not to be done.
     
  17. oko

    oko New Member

    DTechBA, you nailed it on the head when you wrote "Some of those Ivy League's PhD's you see looking for jobs are in fields where there is such oversupply that getting a tenured position is extremely difficult for all graduates in the field regardless of where they graduated." That is my point all along. Choose your field carefully and where you got your degree and the mode or how you got it is irrelevant. Research after research has proven that incomes are virtually the same regardless of where you went to school.

    There are perceptions everywhere but perceptions are not reality. There are those who still perceive blacks and other minorities as inferior. Does that make it so?

    Ivies (there are only 7 or 9 of them) all in the eastern part of the United States are good. No question. It is not the education that makes them great. It is the student they select. More than 80% of Ivy League students will do equally well were they to have gone to any other school. Studies have supported that as well. Good students will be good regardless of where they went.

    Demand and supply of a particular profession dictate income of graduates not necessarily where you went. I continue to stand on that and I am glad you supported that assertion.

    I have never said Ivies degrees are not good. It may help initially but to say that you get better education only at Ivies and you cannot succeed or get tenured with without any Ivy is flat wrong and is not supported by any research I have read or experience I have seen. Harvard and other elite schools pride themselves of their graduates (in my profession) being employed in many of employer agencies and research institutions. That should make any person feel good. Good day.

    Oko
     
  18. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    I think you hit it, Bill (as usual). That´s the essence of learning in the first place which is one of those rare activities in which the means are way more important than the end. Many will never grasp it. :p


    Cordial greetings.
     
  19. Dan Cooper

    Dan Cooper New Member

    There are exceptions where people have done well without a top tier degree or no degree at all for that matter. A couple of the richest guys in the world were undergrad dropouts. But the reality is how many people on this board are going to be the next president, governor or next Bill Gates?

    Me personally I have already been successful in my line of work. I'm surely not getting into adademics for the money. It is where my interests lie. The degree happens to be a requirement for most teaching positions, and it is a major plus to have when you are in the consulting business. I figure if I'm going to take the time to get a dba, I might as well get a good one.

    If people think that a touro degree will suit there needs then thats perfectly fine. Some of the students that are looking into PhD programs have intentions of landing positions in very competitive fields opon graduation. They just need to make sure they do the research and pick the right program, because they will need every advantage they can get.

    I don't think anyone will deny that if 2 candidates that had very simliar qualifications in regard to experience and published works were applying for the same position, and one had a touro phd, the other a Carnegie mellon PhD. I'm sure the person hiring would understand the varying levels of rigor between the two PhD programs. Who do you think they would choose 9 times out of 10?
     
  20. Han

    Han New Member

    9/10??? I would say 10/10, unless one was the daughter of the hiring manager :D
     

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