Famine is Very Near in Gaza Again

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, May 4, 2025.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Gradually it will prove how you and others are deceived by Hamas narrative of deliberate Israeli starvation.

    Claiming it was only “Netanyahu’s stupidity” that caused starvation is inaccurate and one‑sided.
    The Afghanistan/Iraq analogy also leaves out major differences in context, geography, and the adversary’s behavior.

    Actually the critics say, If Netanyahu cut the supplies to Gaza, the war would have ended in 2023.

    To your disappointment and the No_Joe's, the recent reports and video from Gaza activists, including Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib (a Gazan, anti‑Hamas activist at the Atlantic Council), allege that Hamas hid large quantities of infant formula and children’s nutritional drinks in warehouses linked to the Gaza Health Ministry during the worst months of the hunger crisis. These reports say Hamas did this to worsen visible suffering, bolster a narrative of deliberate Israeli starvation, and pressure Israel and the international community over ceasefire and aid‑distribution mechanisms. Even if one treats this as “alleged” pending independent forensic investigations, it directly contradicts your framing that Israel simply “starved Gaza,” because it shows at minimum that Hamas was actively manipulating, and in part manufacturing, the severity of the crisis for political leverage.

    No one is claiming Netanyahu’s government handled Gaza perfectly, and the aid cutoff clearly made things worse. But recent evidence from a Gazan, anti‑Hamas activist shows Hamas itself hid tons of baby formula in Health Ministry warehouses during the worst of the crisis, specifically to intensify hunger and blame Israel.

    Your claim implies Israel blindly walked into a Hamas‑designed starvation trap, whereas the record shows a more complex dynamic of harsh Israeli restrictions plus Hamas exploitation and obstruction. After the March cutoff, Israel did heavily restrict aid into Gaza, which many governments, UN bodies, and NGOs criticized as a major driver of the hunger crisis. At the same time, Israel and the US then helped set up the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) precisely to route aid in ways that tried to bypass Hamas’s control, delivering over 180 million meals and aid packages before it ceased work after the ceasefire. Reports from UNOPS and media investigations indicate that armed groups and gangs inside Gaza repeatedly looted trucks and interfered with distribution, with at least some of that attributed or linked to Hamas or Hamas‑aligned forces, which again undermines the idea that this was simply “Netanyahu starving civilians” rather than a brutal tug‑of‑war in which Hamas knowingly used its own civilians as leverage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2025
  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It's only stupid if you don't accept the reality of the Government's...well! "Final Solution to the Palestinian Arab Problem", to borrow a heavily loaded phrase. But the goal of the current Israeli Government is the complete expulsion or, if necessary, elimination of the Arab population and the resettlement of Arab lands by Israeli Jews. For the more extreme of the settler parties' membership, that includes Arab citizens of Israel.

    I am not making this up. These goals are openly expressed in the speeches and writings of the Settler Parties' leadership.
     
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  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I do not for a moment think that the majority of Israelis seek anything of the kind. There will be an election next year for Knesset. Then we will see.
     
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  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    You are making false statements about what I said. I didn't say it was only Netanyahu's stupidity. I even mention the fact that Netanyahu and his government wanted "the civilian populations to "disappear"". I note that you didn't bother trying to deny that obvious fact. You even admitted far right critics of Netanyahu have apparently stated that he could have ended the war in 2023 if he'd cut off all supplies going into Gaza.

    The far right in Israel are evil. Netanyahu and his government are cut from that cloth. As Nosborne mentioned, an election in Israel will let us know how that has spread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2025
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    It read to me that way, so I responded that way.

    Now you are distorting what I said.
    I said that critics, are saying that Netanyahu could have ended the war in 2023 if he did a full blockade, but he didn't do it, and it cost many lives and lasted longer than it should.
    I think nobody wanted the civilian population to disappear It's what you want the people to believe, what they wanted is for Hamas to be destroyed, or at the minimum capitulate and the return of hostages.
    It's not far right who attacked Israel on Oct 2023. The far right has its problems, but as I explained before it's because of the Jihadists who don't rest from attempts to destroy Israel.
    Far right believe in the whole land of Israel restoration, Jews were expelled from all surrounding Israel countries, no one is arguing that they should return to their homes in Egypt, Iraq etc. Hamas and jihadists believe that whole land needs to be occupied by Islamists and Israel not exist.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2025
  6. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    In 1941 there was a 130,000 Jewish population living in Iraq for 2500 years - 90,000 in Baghdad.
    On June 1, 1941, a mob, incited by rumors of Jewish collaboration with the British, began to attack Jewish homes, shops, and individuals in Baghdad. Over the course of two days, the violence escalated, with Jews being murdered, raped, injured, and looted.
    Hundreds of Jews were killed, though the exact number is unclear (estimate up to 600 in 2 days of violence). Hundreds were injured, and thousands of Jewish homes and businesses were looted or destroyed. The attacks were especially brutal, and the local police and military did little to stop the violence.

    The Farhud marked a turning point for the Jewish community in Iraq. While Jews had lived in Iraq for over 2,500 years, the violence and the atmosphere of hostility toward them made many feel unsafe in their own homeland. The event contributed to the long-term decline of the Jewish community in Iraq, leading to the mass emigration of Jews
    Operation Ezra and Nehemiah was the mass airlift that brought almost the entire Jewish community of Iraq to the newly founded State of Israel in the early 1950s. It is considered one of the most dramatic episodes in the broader exodus of Jews from the Arab and Muslim world
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If they weren't critics of Netanyahu's actions in Gaza then I have no idea what you were talking about. I never said that Netanyahu did a full blockade. That would have been an obvious war crime that not even Biden would have allowed to stand. Which very well could be the reason that Netanyahu didn't take the path.

    Regarding the far right in Israel being bad, of course, they are that way because of Jihadists. Just because Jihadists are evil it doesn't mean that Israel can do bad things. That would be stupid. That is like saying the policemen captured a murderer who surrendered and so the policeman killed him. Just because someone is evil to you it doesn't mean that it is okay to be evil to them. Perhaps that goes against "an eye for an eye" philosophy but that is the way modern civilization works.
     
  8. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    To make myself clear, I dont think peace can ever be achieved as long as Israel operates as an ethno-supremacist country. It is an endless war of oppression.
     
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    We are talking pass each other.
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think there never was peace, as surrounding countries asking Israel to be what they are not ready to be themselves.
    Are you expecting Egypt to be this way, or Iraq, Iran?
    Why only demand it from theJewiash state?
    Isn't it's a highlight of hypocrisy?

    The better way to have lasting and productive peace is between democratic societies.

    Its impossible with Jihadists to have long lasting peace.

    Where are the millions Jews that lived, in some cases for thousands of years in those countries?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2025
  11. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    Two wrongs don’t make a right.
     
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  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Irrelevant, they (Jihadists) kill each other there, look at Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, etc., when they can live in peace among themselves then maybe they can live in peace with neighbors.
    Tell the truth, why are you hiding it?
    Israel has to change as well, but one thing for sure, it has to be the strongest and speak "Arabic" with the neighbors, and I'm not talking about linguistic.
    When Islamic republics will stop being Islamic, then they may talk about Jewish state stop being Jewish.

    Islamic republics, like Iran, are constitutionally defined by their commitment to Islam. In these countries, Islam is not just a religion but a central part of the political system. For instance, Iran's government is based on the concept of Velayat-e-Faqih, or "guardianship of the Islamic jurist," where the highest political authority is held by a religious figure. The government, laws, and societal norms in these countries are influenced by Islamic principles, and many of the key decisions are shaped by religious authorities.

    This raises the question of whether an Islamic republic can ever truly "stop being Islamic." Given the foundational role that Islam plays in these countries' identities, it’s hard to imagine them becoming secular states without a fundamental shift in their political and cultural fabric. The identity of the state is so intertwined with religion that removing that aspect would change not just governance but society itself.

    Similarly, Israel defines itself as a Jewish state. The Law of Return gives Jews the right to immigrate and become citizens, and the state is deeply tied to Jewish history, culture, and religion. However, Israel is also a democracy with a significant Arab population, and over the years, there has been ongoing debate within the country about the role of religion in public life and governance. Some argue that Israel should be more secular, with a clearer separation between religion and state, while others believe the Jewish character of the state is essential to its identity.

    Countries with Islam as the Official Religion
    As of now, there are about 13 countries where Islam is explicitly declared as the official state religion in their constitutions or legal systems:

    1. Afghanistan

    2. Algeria

    3. Bangladesh

    4. Comoros

    5. Djibouti

    6. Egypt

    7. Iran (Islamic Republic)

    8. Iraq

    9. Jordan

    10. Kuwait

    11. Libya

    12. Maldives

    13. Mauritania
    In these countries, Islam plays a central role in the legal, political, and cultural life, and the government may base laws, policies, and institutions on Islamic principles, particularly Sharia law.

    Other Countries with a Strong Islamic Identity
    There are other countries where Islam is the dominant religion, even if it is not officially recognized in the constitution. These countries may still have policies that strongly align with Islamic values:

    • Saudi Arabia is a key example where Islam is deeply intertwined with governance. The country defines itself as an Islamic state and enforces Sharia law, but it does not have a formal constitution—rather, it governs according to Islamic law and royal decrees.

    • Pakistan is another example where Islam is the state religion, and the legal system is heavily influenced by Islamic principles, although the country is officially a parliamentary republic with a constitution that guarantees religious freedom.

    • Turkey, until recently, had been a secular republic, but in recent years, there has been a shift toward more influence of Islam in governance under President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Turkey, while officially secular, has a large Muslim population and its government policies have moved closer to Islam in some respects.
     
  13. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    I never said Israel had to stop being Jewish, just that they cannot exist peacefully as long as they maintain an ethno-supremacy. It has nothing to do with a country’s official language.

    Also, equating an extremist ideology that claims to be Islam with the entirety of the religion is just Islamophobia.
     
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  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    What I explained is that ethnosupremacy is the whole middle East and alot of Africa.
    It's the reality.
    Now if Arabs didn't attack Israel in 1948 and since tried to destroy it in the name if Islam, there would be different reality.

    As to Islamophobia, you mistake what Jihadophobia is.
    Terrorists hide behind the term Islamophobia where in reality they promote Jihad.
     
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    References to thousands of years ago or even 80 years ago are not adding anything to the discussion. It is just a distraction. Also many of Israel's neighbors respect Israel's right to exist. Iran is the primary exception to that rule.

    Regarding silly discussions about Islamophobia versus Jihadophobia, it reminds of racists making arguments as to why their racism is correct or antisemites arguing why their antisemitism is correct. It just make you look bad Lerner, IMHO.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill, wake-up
    I’m talking specifically about Islamist extremist groups and regimes(Iran, Afghanistan and a number of others) that are active today and have a direct impact on security in Israel and the region and the world.
    Groups like Hamas, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, and the Houthis do exist, and they commit violence motivated by their own interpretations of Islam. Acknowledging this does not make someone Islamophobic.

    I would clarify - 1.6 billion Muslims are not responsible for the actions of radical groups, and many Muslim-majority countries actively fight those extremists.

    Islamist extremism is a real and current threat in some regions.
    For people living here, these threats aren’t theoretical or “historical context”—they’re part of current reality.
    That’s why I keep stressing it.
    Ignoring the role these extremist groups play doesn’t help anyone understand what’s happening on the ground right now.

    Pointing out the actions of extremist organizations is not Islamophobia. It’s not about blaming an entire religion or all Muslims—many Muslims reject these groups completely. But acknowledging that these extremist movements exist, that they are active in places like Yemen and elsewhere, and that they openly target Israel, is necessary to understand the situation as it actually is.

    So when I emphasize what’s happening today, it’s not a distraction—it’s the core of the issue.

    Even Japan is now having issues with some radical Islamists.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2025
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This post seems to accuse a large part of the world of being part of the Islam "problem".

    I think NotJoeBiden's response was right on.
     
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  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think differently and provided sufficient info for the readers.
    We are a democracy, we can have our views.
     
  19. jonlevy

    jonlevy Active Member

    If you want to see supremacy look at the constitution of any sharia law Muslim country. Somalia for instance:

    Article 2. State and Religion
    (1) Islam is the religion of the State.
    (2) No religion other than Islam can be propagated in the country.
    (3) No law can be enacted that is not compliant with the general principles and objectives of Sha'riah
     
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  20. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    Look over here. Look over there. Look anywhere but at the American funded genocide in Israel.

    What is this argument? Muslims are intolerant, therefore it is okay to genocide them? Come on man.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2025

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