Famine is Very Near in Gaza Again

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, May 4, 2025.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    AS i see its because you’re constantly looking for anything to blame Israel for — regardless of context or facts.
    That’s not objective criticism, that’s confirmation bias.
    Every military makes mistakes, but you automatically assume the worst when it comes to Israel, and that shows where the real prejudice lies.
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Of course, you are wrong on all counts.

    I'm a huge Israeli supporter and have been most of my life. I just think that genocide is really bad and it hurts Israel. Israel used to be respected by many countries. Israel's reputation is in the dumpster because of their horrible actions in Gaza. Why do I think they committed genocide? Because I have super great respect for reality and try my best to remain in touch with reality. Israel's internal problem is that they are being run by right wing zealot monsters. These evil fanatics are destroying Israel's reputation in the world.

    A wide range of countries, international and Israeli human rights organizations, legal experts, and academics believe that Israel has committed genocide.

    International and Governmental Bodies
    • South Africa formally accused Israel of genocide at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in December 2023. The ICJ issued a provisional ruling that Palestinians have a "plausible" right to protection from genocide and ordered Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent acts of genocide. A final ruling could take years.
    • Over a dozen countries have joined or stated their intention to intervene in South Africa's case, including Belgium, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Egypt, Ireland, Libya, Maldives, Mexico, Nicaragua, Spain, and Türkiye.
    • An independent United Nations Commission of Inquiry concluded in a September 2025 report that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, citing four of the five acts defined in the 1948 Genocide Convention and finding evidence of genocidal intent from top officials' statements.
    • UN experts and special rapporteurs have repeatedly raised the alarm about "genocidal acts" and have called for the international community to prevent the crime of genocide.

    Non-Governmental Organizations and Experts
    • The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), the world's leading body of genocide experts, passed a resolution in September 2025 stating that Israel's actions meet the legal definition of genocide.
    • Major international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have made the formal accusation, pointing to the deprivation of basic necessities like water and food, and the cumulative impact of military policies.
    • Two prominent Israeli human rights groups, B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHRI), became the first local organizations to conclude their country is committing genocide.
    • Other groups include Doctors Without Borders (MSF), the Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect, and many other humanitarian organizations.
    • Academics and experts, such as Omer Bartov and Raz Segal, also argue that Israel's actions constitute genocide.

    Public Opinion
    • Polls show that a significant portion of the public in some countries, including half of US voters in one poll, believe Israel is committing genocide.

    The reality is that Netanyahu and his government are a bunch of evil right wing fanatics that are destroying Israel's reputation in the world. It makes me sad but that is the reality.
     
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  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    4 hostages bodies remain in Gaza,
    The suffering the Hamas and Jihadi ideology caused to Gaza is enormous, not Natanyahoo but Hamas amd their supporters.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Hamas is definitely evil. Even more evil than Netanyahu and his fellow right wing fanatics. They didn't force Israel to commit genocide though. That is on Netanyahu's government.
     
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  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There was no Genocide, there was war with Palestinian terrorists who are attacking Israel.
    Anyone who attacks Isarel will be destroyed.
    I may not agree with Natanyahoo policies, but he is not evil.
    Hamas and Jihad sees us as evil, and they are after you and me.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It makes me sad but here is the reality.

    A wide range of countries, international and Israeli human rights organizations, legal experts, and academics believe that Israel has committed or is committing genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

    International and Governmental Bodies
    • South Africa formally accused Israel of genocide at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in December 2023. The ICJ issued a provisional ruling that Palestinians have a "plausible" right to protection from genocide and ordered Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent acts of genocide. A final ruling could take years.
    • Over a dozen countries have joined or stated their intention to intervene in South Africa's case, including Belgium, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, Egypt, Ireland, Libya, Maldives, Mexico, Nicaragua, Spain, and Türkiye.
    • An independent United Nations Commission of Inquiry concluded in a September 2025 report that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, citing four of the five acts defined in the 1948 Genocide Convention and finding evidence of genocidal intent from top officials' statements.
    • UN experts and special rapporteurs have repeatedly raised the alarm about "genocidal acts" and have called for the international community to prevent the crime of genocide.

    Non-Governmental Organizations and Experts
    • The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), the world's leading body of genocide experts, passed a resolution in September 2025 stating that Israel's actions meet the legal definition of genocide.
    • Major international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have made the formal accusation, pointing to the deprivation of basic necessities like water and food, and the cumulative impact of military policies.
    • Two prominent Israeli human rights groups, B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHRI), became the first local organizations to conclude their country is committing genocide.
    • Other groups include Doctors Without Borders (MSF), the Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect, and many other humanitarian organizations.
    • Academics and experts, such as Omer Bartov and Raz Segal, also argue that Israel's actions constitute genocide.

    Individuals and Public Opinion
    • Several politicians, including Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez and U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders, have used the term genocide to describe Israel's actions.
    • Polls show that public opinion is divided, with a significant portion of the public in some countries, including half of US voters in one poll, believing Israel is committing genocide.
     
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  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Very damning statements by Netanyahu's far right government of fanatics.

    Statements by Israeli officials that have been cited by the International Court of Justice (ICJ), a UN Commission of Inquiry, and human rights experts as potentially implying genocidal intent in Gaza include:
    • Dehumanizing language used by then-Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who referred to Palestinians as "human animals" and stated Israel would "act accordingly". Other officials have used similar terms.
    • Statements implying collective responsibility, such as President Isaac Herzog saying "it's an entire nation out there that is responsible" and dismissing the idea of uninvolved civilians. An official Israeli account claimed "there are no innocent civilians there" in Gaza.
    • Calls for destruction and elimination, including a Deputy Knesset Speaker's call to "burn Gaza now" and seeking to "eras[e] the Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth," and a Knesset member stating the Strip should be "flattened" with a "sentence" of "death" for its inhabitants.
    • Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's repeated reference to "remember what Amalek did to you," a biblical passage interpreted as a command for complete destruction.
    • Support for forced displacement and starvation, with officials referencing a "Gaza's Nakba" and advocating for the forced removal of civilians. The Finance Minister suggested it might be "justified and moral" to "starve 2 million people" and called for "total annihilation".
    • Orders to withhold essential supplies, such as the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories announcing there would be "no electricity and no water, there will only be destruction".
    These statements were presented as evidence of "genocidal intent" in South Africa's case against Israel at the ICJ, and in reports by UN bodies and human rights organizations. Israeli officials have generally argued these comments were taken out of context or were directed at Hamas.
     
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  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The ICJ has not made a final determination that genocide has been committed.

    Legal commentators stress that proving genocidal intent is particularly difficult and requires high standards.
    So you can argue: “Yes, there’s a serious case — but the court hasn’t yet ruled definitively that genocide has occurred or that Israel bears the full legal responsibility.”

    Israel actions are military operations against Gaza militants such as Hamas following the October 7 2023 attack, that civilian casualties are tragic but not the object of its operations.

    One cannot ignore that for Israel this is a war of self-defense.

    The court has not ruled conclusively that genocide has occurred, or that Israel bears legal responsibility for genocide at this point.

    For genocide you need both acts and the specific intent to destroy a protected group ‘as such’. That intent is particularly difficult to prove and remains disputed. So while your concerns are valid, the discussion is still legally open.

    To me the genocide is ruled out, even if it’s in the zone of serious but not legally settled allegations many who scream genocide are guilty of it themselves and have human rights violations in their countries. They are anti Israel biased coalition.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    But I'm sure if they had you would totally change your tune. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Actually, they didn’t — and that matters. There was no genocide in Gaza. Israel repeatedly issued warnings to civilians, often delaying or canceling operations to avoid harm. Military legal officers frequently intervened to ensure compliance with international law.

    There are documented cases where Hamas operatives, disguised in civilian clothing, were seen planting explosives or using humanitarian aid as cover. Yet Israeli forces were ordered not to engage, precisely because those individuals were not in uniform and civilians were nearby. These examples demonstrate restraint, not intent to destroy a population.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Your prejudice has apparently made you totally miss the point. The point was that even if the ICJ ruled that genocide did in fact occur you would be totally unmoved in your blind defense of Israel.
     
  13. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    Looks like only one of them lived up to their founding documents.
     
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  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The issue is that there was no genocide, that anti-Israel crowd and the propaganda are pushing. Did you see the news about BBC resignations?
    BBC was caught with Gaza misleading documentary and now the leaked edited Trump reporting. The resignations have fueled debates about editorial standards, impartiality, and accountability at the BBC. The chair of the BBC, Samir Shah, issued a formal apology for the editing and acknowledged the seriousness of the errors. Political and public reactions suggest that these resignations may prompt significant internal reforms and discussions about oversight at the broadcaster. BBC resignations were prompted by a major scandal over a misleading edit in a Trump speech documentary, raising questions about editorial practices, transparency, and leadership responsibility at one of the world's most prominent public broadcasters.

    Back to Gaza, It's not really Gaza , the conflict is Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.

    Anyway - this is a very old conflict, it goes way back - it's a religious war.
    Fact - The current war is called "Flood of Al-Aqsa" by Hamas and their supporters, emphasizing that the conflict is about Jerusalem, not Gaza.
    The road to Jerusalem, same goal as Iran and other Jihadi forces.

    But it was the Jews who built the basis of Dome of the Rock as the Third Temple after they conquered Jerusalem in 614 CE.
    The Jewish fighters allied with the Babylonians and then local Jews to capture Jerusalem and began temple rituals, but did not finish the complete temple before the Babylonians withdrew their support.
    Byzantine Christians later converted the site but made it a church only for eight years.
    With the coming of Muslim rule Caliph Umar a father-in-law to the Jewish family, Jewish and Muslim forces rebuilt and restored the holy site as a Jewish temple starting 638 AC.
    Muslim sources acknowledge a builder named Abd al-Malik as the patron; According to some Muslim chroniclers (like al-Ṭabarī and Mujīr al-Dīn al-ʿUlaymī) and later Jewish traditions, Umar not only permitted Jews to return but even brought seventy Jewish families, often described as “priestly families” (Kohanim or Levites), to settle by the Temple Mount (Ḥaram al-Sharīf). They would light the Menorah - Lamp and the Ketoret, and sacrifice to God.

    Early Islamic coins from Jerusalem, particularly during the Umayyad period (7th–8th centuries CE), have been discovered depicting the Jewish Temple’s menorah alongside Arabic inscriptions from the Qur'an and the Islamic declaration of faith. These coins most likely originate from the reign of Umayyad caliphs such as Abd al-Malik, but some traditions connect them with Caliph Umar as well.
    • The coins feature both seven- and five-branched menorah designs, thought to reference the Temple in Jerusalem. The depiction of the menorah relate to early Muslim respect for Jewish heritage upon conquering Jerusalem, with Muslims seeing themselves as continuing the biblical tradition.
      upload_2025-11-10_16-41-27.jpeg
    The inscription in the Musk states that the land or building in Nuba is a waqf (religious endowment) dedicated to Bayt al-Maqdis — The Temple - that is, the Jerusalem sanctuary (the Temple Mount / Haram al-Sharif).

    The octagonal architectural style, the mosaics, and structure are argued to resemble Byzantine, not traditional Islamic design. It's similar to other Byzantine structures.
    Muslims called the site “Beit Al-Maqdis” ( Bait Hamikdash) (the House of Holiness, or Temple) up until the Crusader period.

    This is the prelude to the war and Muslim desire to control the area.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2025
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

  16. NotJoeBiden

    NotJoeBiden Well-Known Member

    If only there was a deal in place to prevent Iran from getting a Nuclear Weapon…
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Deep mistrust remains between the parties, and Iran’s regime ideology and strategic goals have made it difficult to secure a lasting deal. (A real deal).
    Historical context shows previous deals slowed Iran’s official nuclear sites, but could not fully prevent secret or undeclared activities.
    The Iranian regime's pattern of deception and bypassing agreements is seen as a major obstacle to long-term success in diplomatic efforts to prevent them from acquiring nuclear weapons.
     
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Israel Uncovers MASSIVE Hamas Cell Planning the UNTHINKABLE in Jerusalem
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-detains-40-members-of-hamas-network-in-west-bank-said-to-be-planning-attacks/ar-AA1QmPVI
    The IDF thwarted a potentially catastrophic Hamas terror plot in Bethlehem involving over 50 operatives. The episode highlights how Hamas continues to maintain a strong presence in Judea and Samaria,
    Israeli intelligence identified that the suspects belonged to an interconnected Hamas cell, integrating both military and support roles, and acting under direction from higher-ranking Hamas leadership. This established a clear chain of command and operational hierarchy, characteristic of coordinated efforts tied to Hamas command infrastructure.

    Prior experience in the region has shown that mass arrest campaigns against similar cells in the West Bank have resulted in the identification of parallel command structures, sometimes forged within prison, allowing Hamas’s external leadership to reinforce local discipline and strategic coordination even while under pressure.

    These findings collectively demonstrate that the suspects were not just isolated extremists, but participants in a structured Hamas network, acting on orders in alignment with broader organizational strategies and under defined operational leadership.
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The link doesn't have those ridiculous ALL CAPS words, so why does your post? You realize that makes rational people take things less seriously, not more, right?
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I agree completely.
    ——————
    Here’s my comments on the article.

    Hamas is bad.

    The article also mentions that settlers have made more attacks this year already than all of last year.

    Jewish settlers are bad.
     
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