EdS degree

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by bing, Sep 16, 2005.

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  1. bing

    bing New Member

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    Just curious. Are people with the EdS often called "Dr"? I wish I had kept this reference but I was perusing some university sites the other day, regular brick and mortars, and ran into a faculty page listing for a lady with an EdS. No PhD or EdD listed. Then, it said something like, "Dr. Soandso's area of research is..."
     
  2. alarmingidea

    alarmingidea New Member

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    In Portugal people with bachelor's degrees are called "doctor". Maybe we should just do as the Portuguese do and rid ourselves of all this confusion.
     
  3. bing

    bing New Member

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    I remember a good German film titled "The Nasty Girl" , http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6302253764/103-1808709-8302200?v=glance . She was a high school girl looking for the truth about Nazism in her town. I recall that she called her teacher, "Doctor".

     
  4. alarmingidea

    alarmingidea New Member

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    There was one faculty member in my high school with a PhD, and he was called Dr. Nolan. Everyone else was Mr., Miss, or Mrs. (No Ms.'s on staff when I was there.)
     
  5. Michael Wilson

    Michael Wilson New Member

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    I have the equivalent of an Ed.S. (it's a specialist's degree in Library and Information Science), and no one has ever called me "doctor," except by mistake.
     
  6. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

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    Ditto ;)
     
  7. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

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    No "Doctor" but an EdS has some advantages....you avoid the "ABD" limbo and an EdS IS considered a "terminal degree" which can help land a University job...most "ABD" do not finish...and an "ABD" is ultimately "just another Master's".
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    The Ed.S. isn't a doctorate. It is a recognition for doctoral coursework without actually completing a doctorate. It's holders are not doctors.

    There is considerable professional pressure on educators to (a) earn credits for maintaining licensure and (b) getting academically prepared for certain education positions (like being a principal). The Ed.S. tends to allow educators to earn credits and get some form of recognition without actually going for a doctorate. Think of it as an associate's degree on steroids.

    Not a doctorate. Not a degree. More like a post-graduate certificate.
     
  9. alarmingidea

    alarmingidea New Member

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    It sounds like the CAGS (certificate of advanced graduate study) that UMass Amherst used to award. It was essentially the coursework component of an Ed.D. without the dissertation. It was a very high level of work and indeed got people I knew jobs that otherwise would have required a doctorate.
     
  10. DesElms

    DesElms New Member

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    Now that is an alarming idea. ;)
     
  11. Rob Coates

    Rob Coates New Member

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    Rich;

    I'd have to strongly disagree with this. It is certainly a degree and not a certificate. I would agree however, that the Ed.S. is pretty much a doctoral program without the dissertation (at least my Ed.S program was). In fact, in my case, I ended up writing a 60 plus page research project that was supervised by a committee and had to be orally defended just like a dissertation. Had I entered the Ed.D. program at the time, about the only difference would have been a few more pages and the term "dissertation" instead of "research project." Live and learn I quess.
     
  12. marilynd

    marilynd New Member

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    Rich:

    Rob's right, at least as far as the American Council on Education is concerned. For example, their academic dress standards set hood length and trim size requirements for "specialist" degrees like Ed.S. midway between the master and doctorate. BTW, no hoods are established for graduate certificates.

    As to the point of this thread, you're absolutely right. The Ed.S. is not a doctorate, so one holding an Ed.S. should not be addressed "Dr."

    Hope this helps,

    marilynd
     
  13. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

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  14. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina New Member

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    Hi Bing,

    As those above have said, the EdS (Educational Specialist) degree is considered above a masters degree, yet below a doctorate. It would always be inappropriate to address the holder of an EdS as "doctor". The EdS is a rather odd degree and is pretty much exclusive to education-- which is an odd field anyway, with two doctorates (PhD and EdD) that are basically the same thing.

    The Certificate of Advanced Graduate Study (CAS or CAGS) is equivalent to the EdS (unfortunately without the title of "degree"), both are most often earned by completing the equivalent of another masters degree worth of coursework. Most EdS programs do not require culminating theses or projects, although some do. As noted above some programs award the EdS for doctoral students who do not complete a dissertation (although most EdS programs are seen as a "halfway point between the masters & doctorate).

    My doctoral program required the completion of a masters and an EdS or equivalent for admission to the program. The EdS required 45 quarter units beyond the masters and the EdD required 45 additional units byond the EdS. Since I had completed three years of doctoral study at another university, that was accepted as EdS equivalent. Most of my peers earned an EdS and then took the additional coursework and dissertation required to earn the Ed.D.--so they ended up with one more degree than I did.

    Most of the people that I know who have EdS degrees are those seeking special endorsements (such as Ed Psych, School Counseling or Technology) and those in administrative positions who did not want to do additional coursework and dissertation. There are many who feel that the EdS, rather than the PhD or EdD, should be the degree earned by most educational administrators (e.g. principals and superintendents) who need advanced training, but not necessarily the research component of a doctorate. I would tend to agree with this.

    Unfortunately, the discipline of education failed in its attempts to create an applied/practitioner/professional degree by "wimping out" and making the EdD a virtual clone of the PhD in education, without dropping the PhD (as did other disciplines such as medicine). I see the EdS as another failed attemt to do the same basic thing. We end up with another degree that is confusing to most people, not knowing whether it is a "super masters" or "junior doctorate" (it is actually the former).
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Active Member

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    Compelling, coming from ACE. But authoritative? I wonder what the scholarly literature regarding the U.S. educational system has to say (or, likely, doesn't have to say).

    Many (most? all?) universities offering it call it a degree.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2005
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Active Member

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    Is the Ed.S. "conferred" on the recipiant? If so, what does the regalia look like?

    The University of New Mexico used to say (and maybe still does) that the Ed.S. is NOT a degree but I have certainly seen it referred to as a degree elsewhere.
     
  17. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina New Member

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    The way that I have seen it done is that EdS graduates where the doctoral style robe but masters style hood.

    Most institutions that offer the Ed.S. consider it a degree. I have noticed that the Ed.S. appears to be more common in the east than in the west (this is certainly true of the CAGS).
     
  18. decimon

    decimon Active Member

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    You're allowed drapes with the curtain rod.
     
  19. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Active Member

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    So it's a Mactor's Degree? ;)

    Too bad the Ed.D. developed the way it did, that is, almost indistinguishable for the Ph.D. in Education. The Ed.S. could easily have become the "Professional Doctorate" otherwise.
     
  20. jimnagrom

    jimnagrom New Member

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    Nova's EdS is essentially everything but the dissertation...allowing students to immediately leverage it as a degree while they complete their doctorate...or if their situation precludes this..they STILL have the EdS. - and having it was enough to be hired - a Master's was not enough.
     

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