Douglas Dissertation Proves Value of Unaccredited Degrees

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Dennis Ruhl, Jun 15, 2004.

Loading...
  1. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    It was never previously brought to my attention but Rich Douglas'es research shows a high degree of utility for state approved degrees.

    96 % of human resources managers in the study initially agreed that state approved degrees were at least somewhat useful.

    Upon being told how useless state approved degrees were, 65 % of these managers still considered state approved degrees at least somewhat useful.

    If I owned a state approved school, I would be kissing Rich right now and giving his research widespread acknowledgement.

    State approved degrees are apparently not the pariah we were lead to believe.
     
  2. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Dennis,

    Why would you lie about such things?

    Regarding Rich's research, clearly, it was not that these people were told "how useless state approved degrees were." That is, it seems, a lie.

    In fact, you know exactly what they were told, and it was nothing resembling this.

    Yet, it seems, you choose to lie about it to make your unaccredited degree look better.

    Good show.

    I have never known anyone with a legitimate degree who obfuscated the facts surrounding that degree.

    Honestly, Dennis, I do not doubt that your degree will be just as legitimate as Neil's degree from Trinity.

    Congrats, Doctor!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2004
  3. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

     
  4. atraxler

    atraxler New Member

    Mr. Ruhl,

    I have done a search on the entire document (Douglas PDE.PDF) and there are 0 occurrences of the word "useless" (as in "upon being told how useless state approved degrees were").

    Where does Rich states that these degrees are useless? Perhaps you should read the dissertation again.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    While Dennis is his usually sloppy self when it comes to expressing ideas (and supporting them), he is right about at least one thing. State-approved degrees have a surprisingly high level of acceptance. This drops significantly when an explanation about state approval is provided, but I was surprised it didn't drop more. Still, employers rated degrees from this sort of school significantly lower than RA--before and after descriptions were provided. The dissertation, using inferential statistics, infers there is a difference between the two because of the size of the difference seen in the sample. How large the difference actually is in the population, no one can say. Not even Dennis.

    If I was involved in a degree mill or unaccredited DL school(something Dennis understands), I would include this study's results in my promotional literature. This is something I feared would occur. I expected the results I got because we all know the magnitude of the degree mill issue--lots of customers must be using their degrees, right? I fully anticipated the results I got (except that I expected state approval to drop after a description was provided even more than it did), and figured some people would use the results to support their nefarious activities. (This occured one other time with the largely cited--erroneously--Sosdian and Sharp study.) But I did it anyway and published the results. I want this message out, even if the crooks use it. They're not the problem. Degree mill customers and their employers are.

    Finally, I think it's funny that degree mill proponents (Dennis' buddies on other fora) complain about bias, but Dennis trumpets the results. Talk about being on both sides of the issue. Or maybe it's just personal? (I hope so. It sure isn't reasoned or logical. :rolleyes: )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2004
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Re: Douglas Dissertation Proves Value of Unaccredited Degrees

    I assume Neil (??) graduated from Trinity College and University and *NOT* Trinity Theological Seminary.

    North
     
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Dennis, spreads untruths once again. Rich has said all along that his study indicated that knowledge of accreditation was surprisingly lacking amongst HR managers. It is an excellent example of how these degrees are such time bombs. It may get you in the door if HR is unaware but it could still blow up in your face if they find out later. The hilarious part (and sad scary part) is that it seems to indicate that a decent unaccredited school like CCU has about as much utility as a roaring degree mill.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    And, as we've seen recently, either (CCU or a degree mill) can blow up in one's face.

    Dennis is now joining the other degree mill shills on other fora, using this one finding to pump up their little pet projects while simultaneously denouncing the author (me). It goes like this:

    "James" (James Crabb) mis-states something in the dissertation. Dennis repeats it here. I point out the mistake. Dennis goes elsewhere and announces I've denied a direct quote (not true, as readers here can see). The other weirdos jump in with wild accusations.

    The funniest one is that I didn't write it, John Bear did. Or that I've tried to hide the dissertation because of its results. Which is it? Both? John wrote it and I hid it? All because of a mistake by Dennis that he then amplified into all of this? Is it any wonder why Dennis and his degree mill buddies are to be ignored?

    Finally, the same people who claim I've tried to hide it also claim I promote it tirelessly. That these are juxtaposed ideas doesn't seem to get in the way of a slimy agenda, revealing that (a) I've got the right set of enemies and (b) it's personal with them.

    People I've tangled with persistently (or who trash me unsolicitedly):

    Peter French--Summit and ACU
    Emir Mohammed--Robert Kennedy College
    James Crabb--basic degree mill shill
    "Dr." Marianus--Knightsbridge
    Neil Hayes--Knightsbridge
    Henrik what's-his-name--Knightsbridge
    The a.e.d. spammer (Byran Lee and other identies)--not sure, Berne?
    Rossi Hassad--Berne
    Dennis Ruhl--CCU

    Feel free to see the pattern. :D
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    By the way, even the title of the thread is wrong. First, I didn't "prove" anything, which isn't what is done in the scientific method. I wrote research questions, developed research methods, collected and analyzed data, and drew conclusions. But "proving" something it isn't. "Proof" is a vague, general idea that there is some fact or idea that is commonly accepted and supported by the evidence. (It's called a "fact.")

    Second, I didn't provide evidence regarding the "value" of unaccredited degrees. I provided evidence of their utility--and evidence that threatens it (reducing ignorance about the topic). If anything, the data suggest that people get away with using these degrees, but their ability to do so drops significantly as decision-makers understand the salient concepts. You know, the "time bomb" metaphor introduced by Bear.

    Finally, I find it funny that the same crowd--none of whom has a doctorate from an accredited school, BTW--that criticizes both the work and me would think what I've written could "prove" anything. Or, again, is it just personal?
     
  10. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Once again the gist of what I wrote is true but those who pick nits show up and comment.
     
  11. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Pretty sharp bunch of guys?

    Perhaps if you were just a teeny bit more polite to these people?? Naw - what am I saying?
     
  12. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Paraphrasing?
     
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Dennis, why do you think it is that a degree mill seems to have utility that's similar to a habitually unaccredited but apparently decent school like CCU?

    Here's some choices.

    1. Degree mills have great utility (at least outside academia), look at SRU and KWU claims which proves it, of course real schools that can't get accreditation would have similar utility.

    2. Many people will lump all unaccredited institutions into one bucket.

    3. CCU is not nearly as good as we thought. (It didn't get accredited even though you said that it was a 100% chance of success.)
     
  14. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Sorry but I didn't do any research in this area. All I can do is defer to Douglas and his excellent dissertation showing 96 % acceptance, at some level, of state approved degrees.
     
  15. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    or a regionally accredited university.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Contrary to your statement, the study indicated that there was a significant difference in the level of acceptance between unaccredited and accredited. If you meant something different, then what was it that you were indicating?
     
  17. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member


    I believe what he was indicating is that he has great difficulty separating fact from fiction.


    :rolleyes:



    Tom Nixon
     
  18. Kirkland

    Kirkland Member

    This is a tough forum to provide a critique of Rich Douglas' work; however, Rich asked if I would provide objective comment regarding his dissertation.

    My response to this project is mixed. I believe Rich did a credible job analyzing the data received and I believe the description of the results was objective. However, I believe the method for collecting this data was flawed and therefore should not have been approved in committee.

    It seems clear to me from the descriptions of State Approval (which stressed the negative) and Regional Accreditation (which stressed the positive) that the investigator was leading the respondents and that bias was introduced. Even so, the results regarding acceptability of State Approved degrees by HR managers was significant (although immaterial since it is mainly line managers, not HR staff managers, who are the decision makers regarding new hires).

    The underlying analysis seems to be word recognition. This is supported by the high level of acceptability of Columbia State University, a notorious degree mill. The fact that good sounding words motivate or fail to discourage is not a new concept in marketing or psychology. However, to Rich's credit, this analysis did attempt to measure the acceptability of educational brands and various levels of institutional recognition in a business setting. It demonstrated the lack of knowledge of accreditation or interest on the part of the respondents. Not surprisingly regional accreditation was highly recognized.

    In general, I believe the project proposal should have been returned to Rich by his doctoral committee in order to revise the discovery constructs, prior to data collection. This action was not taken by the committee. As a result, I believe the results of the study should be considered inconclusive on the basis of inadequate and possibly flawed data.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2004
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Do the folks at CCU have any idea how helpful Dennis is to their public image round here?
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't trying to measure the acceptability of degrees depend heavily on word recognition? It seems to be that it is the only way to get to the question of acceptability of degrees?

    The most surprising conclusion coming out of the study was how uninformed HR is on accreditation. When I thought about it in more general terms, it made perfect sense though. I know that I didn't have any better understanding of accreditation than our HR managers until I read Bears' Guide. It is really a rather complicated subject. How many places is accreditation explained? It is apparently not generally part of HR training.
     

Share This Page