Does anyone know the fate of the external degree program at the University of London

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JLV, Jul 30, 2006.

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  1. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Since the University of London might dissolve itself, and apparently its constituent colleges would grant their degrees independently from then on, does anyone know what will happen to their external degree? Will they be conferred independently, by each college or will the external program simply disappear? I would appreaciate that Brendan from the UofL or anyone else elaborate a little further on this matter.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I don't know what other schools will do but I can tell you that my program (p.g. Laws) materials are REALLY emphasizing the "Queen Mary-UCL" connection (which they didn't used to do) so I would assume that the program will continue under the auspices of these two schools.
     
  3. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    1) I don't think UoL is likely to dissolve in near future. There are some colleges who wants to move out of UoL, but not all of them.

    2) For the external degrees, I don't know all, but as far as I know about the MBA programme at Imperial, I believe the programme would continue, although there are a number of possibilities on how it continues. I believe having UoL and Imperial having some arrangement to jointly continue the programme is probably the best option.

    It is still far from having any big changes within UoL. If you want to receive education from UoL, just go ahead. The change is very unlikely to affect the study even if you start now. It still has a long way to go before it becomes (or chooses to become) "historical".
     
  4. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Hi JLV and others,

    First I'd heard of it!

    Is this an assumption based on the withdrawal of Imperial from UoL? (For those that don't know, Imperial is withdrawing from the University in time to gain university status in it's own right for it's centenary in 2007.)

    If so, then please remember that there have been rumours about the demise of the University of London, as early as the late 1830's. Also it's worth noting that the make-up of the University of London has been constantly changing throughout history due to the withdrawals, mergers and acquisitions of and by Colleges and due to new institutions joining the university.

    If the question is how does Imperial's withdrawal affect the University of London External System? In the large part it doesn't apart possibly in relation to a few programmes.

    Imperial currently offers through the External System an MBA programme and several postgraduate programmes in subjects related to Agriculture - tcmak is correct in that there are a number of possibilities on how these programmes will continue once Imperial has withdrawn from the University. I've heard a few rumours about which are the most likely but I don't think there's anything concrete yet. I'm sure that as soon as anything has been confirmed the details will be posted on the relevant websites and potential and current students will be informed.

    All the best,

    Brendan

    P.S. In 2008 the University of London will be celebrating the 150th Anniversary of the External System. If there are any readers that have been involved with the External System in any way please visit the following website www.londonexternal.ac.uk/150 to share your memories and photographs.

    P.P.S. for nosbourne - in the past the LLM had academic direction from five of the colleges, SOAS, King's, LSE, QMUL and UCL. Since the programme was redeveloped, a couple of years ago, the academic direction now comes from QMUL and UCL. It's likely that the switch from five to two has probably made the connection to the departments/colleges more visible.
     
  5. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Thanks, Nosborne, Tcmak and Brendan. I hope I didn't contribute to spread a baseless rumor. However, yesterday I read this article that someone sent me, which states that some of the most emblematic colleges at the UofL (IC, UCL, LSE,..) may go their own way.

    Please, take a look yourself.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/comment/story/0,9828,1655906,00.html

    As you see the government itself has some stake in the matter, but I feel relieved that personnel at the UofL has heard nothing solid, and that this is just a unjustified rumor. After all, British people stick to their traditions.
     
  6. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Ah that Simon Jenkins article....

    Hi JLV,

    This article really made me laugh. Simon Jenkins is an architect and this in itself adds an interesting perspective. My personal take was that he doesn't like the buildings (especially Senate House) so thinks the organisation needs to go.

    This was the official reply from the University press office - it was printed in the Guardian a few days later.

    As you'd expect Jenkins' article drew a fair number of responses - letters to the Guardian and press releases especially from some of the University of London colleges within Bloomsbury (e.g. this was Birkbeck's response).

    All the best,

    Brendan
     
  7. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    OK, thank you very much, Brendan.

    Let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

    The following article is also from The Guardian, and explains that several schools, the most prestigious ones, have applied to confer their own degrees, and break thus any link to the University of London.

    http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,1539285,00.html

    So from what I gather, even if the best colleges go their way, the University of London will stay, OK. But what *would* then happen to those external degrees that so far were prepared by the LSE, for instance? My wife is an LSE on campus graduate, and she insists that when she was a student there, there were rumors as well about the LSE breaking up with the University of London. I guess my question is: is there a plan B if the federation breaks up, or downsizes itself, for those students who study externally (i.e. if needed, Birbeck, Holloway or any other would take over those social science students)?

    Thanks in advance and sorry if I am too obnoxious.:)
     
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Even were the University of London dissolved, and the external programme discontinued as a result, I can't believe that they wouldn't make an arrangement for current students to complete their studies under the supervision of one of the erstwhile constituent colleges.

    -=Steve=-
     
  9. tcmak

    tcmak New Member

    I believe there are really a number of options exist. But it is yet too early to have a concrete plan.

    It is too early when who is going to continue the programme isn't known, or jointly run the programme. There are still a lot high level issues to look at.

     
  10. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Hi JLV,

    My thoughts are:

    1) There isn't another university anywhere that's quite like London. It's a federation and colleges come and go. However from the consultation that the Vice Chancellor ran last year with the colleges - I can't see any of the colleges, other than Imperial, wanting to change their status within the University at this time.

    2) Within London (and within any university) degree subjects come and go - departments close, staff change, and often so do purposes and ethos. Inevitably this leads to changes of focus within departments and the creation and closure of courses.

    3) Within London (and within every reputable university) students should always be protected - for example in our case every course has a strict contract governing it - so that when a course is withdrawn students are always allowed a set number of years to complete any course that they have started.

    4) The situation in London is confusing in comparison to other universities as similar departments may exist at different colleges within the university, therefore in our case we can change the academic direction behind the courses, e.g. the LLM referenced in one of my previous posts (read some of Nosbourne's posts to see the changes that this brought to the programme).

    Another example is that King's closed down their BA/BSc Geography course to new students a couple of years ago. Students who were on the course still have until 2009 to complete. However LSE have recently developed a new BSc in Geography and Environment to fill this gap in our provision. Students on the old BA/BSc Geography can transfer on to the new LSE-led course.

    Other examples and options exist due to the federal nature, e.g. moving the DL provision in house. Not all colleges of the University choose to push their DL provision through the External System.

    5) I've no idea what you mean by best colleges. All of UoL's colleges are world class - they are just different ;-)

    6) The university is celebrating it's 150th* anniversary of the External provision in a couple of years time. We're not the sort of DL provider that will evaporate overnight.

    All the best,

    Brendan


    * and maybe a bit more. 1858 is a landmark date - but there were external students before this.

    P.S. I'm away for a bit so sorry if this is my last post on this topic for a while.
     
  11. JLV

    JLV Active Member

    Hi, Brendan, thank you very much for your clarification. In fact, I think that you have resolved all my doubts. Just one last comment. I am aware of the tradition around the external degree program at the University of London, and I didn’t mean to imply the school would leave its students unattended should one of these contingencies we spoke about emerge. I just wanted to know if it was being discussed by insiders, and the reflections of others on these schools leaving (if they ever do). Again thank you very much for your help, and have a nice trip. :)

    PS Thanks as well to Tcmak
     
  12. GME

    GME New Member

    I do wish London had decided to go forward with their masters in United States Studies.

    Bummer.

    -- GE
     
  13. joi

    joi New Member

    Brandon,

    I´m enrolled in the BSc. in Politics and International Relations, and yesterday I saw that now a student also has the opportunity of completing a BSc. Politics and a BSc. International Relations.

    I also know, originally after reading a post of yours, that a student can complete more than one program, provided there wasn´t significant overlapping in courses. This was confirmed to me by one of the Admissions Officers last year.

    Would it be possible to complete both the BSc. Politics and the BSc. International Relations? There are only 3 common subjects between them.

    Thanks in advance for your advice.

    Joi




     
  14. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Hi Joi,

    I have to admit I know only a little about these particular degrees - I'd suggest that you need to contact our Programme Enquiries team - [email protected].

    You'll need to take certain units for each degree and the key will be about overlapping of units.

    I'm sure you wouldn't be allowed to use all the units from the first degree to count towards the second degree. I'm sure we'd expect you to take different units for each degree.

    I would also imagine that we could deal with this sort of situation through the use of exemption. However, you would only be allowed to apply for exemption (gain double credit as it were) for a maximum of four units.

    Therefore to get two degrees I would imagine that you will need to take 20 units.

    I'd strongly suggest that you take further advice from our Programme Enquiries team - [email protected].

    Best wishes,

    Brendan
     
  15. joi

    joi New Member

    Thanks, Brendan

    I´ll try to work this out with the Admissions Department.

    I apologise for mispelling your name.

    Good luck,


    Joi

     
  16. fawcettbj

    fawcettbj New Member

    Just to keep the forum you up to date re position with Imperial - this was posted on our website yesterday.

    Notice to prospective students for External programmes offered through Imperial College Distance Learning Programme

    You may be aware that Imperial College is to withdraw from the University of London on 8 July 2007. Negotiations are currently in hand regarding future arrangements for those programmes offered by the University's External System in association, until now, with Imperial's Distance Learning Programme (Wye Campus).

    The anticipated result of these negotiations is that academic responsibility for programmes other than the MBA will transfer with associated staff to the School of Oriental & African Studies (SOAS), University of London with effect from 1 August 2007. Contact details for communications concerning the programmes are unchanged.

    The DL MBA will now be offered though Imperial College and further details may be obtained at http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/tanaka/distance-learning-mba

    Source is: http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/prospective_students/postgraduate/imperial/mba/index.shtml
     

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