Doctorate & Me

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by TEKMAN, Oct 20, 2013.

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  1. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Well, let's look at the numbers for business doctorates issued over the past 10 years:

    2001-02: 1,156
    2002-03: 1,252
    2003-04: 1,481
    2004-05: 1,498
    2005-06: 1,711
    2006-07: 2,029
    2007-08: 2,084
    2008-09: 2,123
    2009-10: 2,245
    2010-11: 2,286

    This is a 97.8 % increase (almost double) over 10 years.
    So maybe the "flood of new doctors in business" is already here.

    Did the demand for business doctorates really double over that time?
    If not, then we have to assume that supply is outpacing demand, which implies that value will fall.

    Data from the NCES Digest of Education Statistics, Table 347.
     
  2. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Well, let's look at the numbers for business doctorates issued in 2011-12 by some specific well-known schools:

    13 University of Michigan
    15 University of Chicago
    16 UCLA
    18 University of California, Berkeley
    19 Stanford University
    19 University of Texas
    20 Harvard University

    93 Walden University
    111 Northcentral University
    189 Capella University
    236 University of Phoenix

    Which schools are more likely to be driving the dramatic increase in business doctorates over the past 10 years ?
    Hint: in 2011-2012, Walden issued more business doctorates (93) than all Ivy League schools combined (78).

    Data from College Navigator.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2013
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    It depends what you call a "flood". Even 2,286 per year is only one for every 135,000 people in the U.S.
     
  4. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    It's a "flood" relative to historical degree-issuing numbers.
    For example:

    In 1986-87, there were 1,062 doctorates in business issued.
    In 2001-02, there were 1,156 doctorates in business issued.

    That's a net increase of 94 business doctorates in 15 years, or average growth of 7 degrees per year.

    In 2001-02, there were 1,156 doctorates in business issued.
    In 2011-12, there were 2,286 doctorates in business issued.

    That's a net increase of 1,130 business doctorates in 10 years, or average growth of 113 degrees per year.

    Seems different somehow.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    There are lies, damned lies and statistics. -- Mark Twain

    LOL
     
  6. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Here, again, are the raw numbers for business doctorates issued over the past 10 years:

    2001-02: 1,156
    2002-03: 1,252
    2003-04: 1,481
    2004-05: 1,498
    2005-06: 1,711
    2006-07: 2,029
    2007-08: 2,084
    2008-09: 2,123
    2009-10: 2,245
    2010-11: 2,286

    You don't need any fancy statistics to get the picture.
    The number goes up every year.
    It has just about doubled over 10 years.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2013
  7. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Excellent analysis Caldog. LOL

    In the 1960s, we didn't need as many doctorates as they were producing i.e. not every in-resident doctoral holder was able to find a tenured position. Today, nothing has changed.

    The issuance of degrees is all about supply and demand. Many people demand it and academia is ready to supply it.

    It seems that the biggest explosion is in the issuance of Bachelors and Masters degrees -- and not in doctorates. Do you have any stats to back that up?
     
  8. distancedoc2007

    distancedoc2007 New Member

    Just looking around, I imagine that a lot of the growth in business doctorates must be in mid-career doctorates. There are more and more MBAs who hit their 40s and 50s and wonder "What can I do for an encore, and to freshen up my thinking?" These people are not thinking about tenure track. Their careers are going well, and they have some time and brains to spare. That would be the profile of the half-dozen or so people I know who obtained doctorates in midlife.
     
  9. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Even if there was an oversupply of business doctorates in the 1960s, that doesn't mean there is no change. The oversupply could be greater today.

    For example, in the 1960s, most US college faculty held full-time tenured (or tenure-track) positions. Today, the majority of US college faculty work as part-time, low-paid adjuncts. That certainly seems like a change -- and it also seems like a change that could reflect oversupply and devaluation of doctorates.

    Some schools seem more ready than others.

    You can easily see the long-term data here.

    In relative terms, the biggest increases are at the doctoral level, at least from 2001-02 to 2010-11 (last 10 years of data):

    - Business bachelor's degrees are up by 31.2 %
    - Business master's degrees are up by 56.4 %
    - Business doctoral degrees are up by 97.8 %
     
  10. instant000

    instant000 Member

    TEKMAN:

    You may be able to limit your GI Bill usage for some of these on your list. I am currently applying for the VCTP from Syracuse, and hoping I can qualify for it to get PMP. That is, I am hoping they waive the part about being within a year of leaving the service, since I've been out of the service for 7 years.

    Be very careful with how you use the benefits. When you use it for tests, it is rounded up to the nearest month. This isn't that bad, for something like the CCIE Lab, but it may be a waste on some of the other ones. Choose carefully.

    Remember: You can use it for training, also. So, a high-level bootcamp might be a good use for the benefits.

    I'm sitting here with 36 months to spend and 96 months remaining to use them in. Don't want to blow them, but also don't want to waste them on a less-than-optimal usage.

    Ahh, dilemmas.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Well, there are always more statistics, I guess. Here's a scary one. According to this article, the number of Ph.D. and other grad-degree holders receiving food stamps tripled from 2007 - 2010.

    Why So Many Ph.D.s Are On Food Stamps : NPR

    Johann
     
  12. instant000

    instant000 Member

    That looks redundant.

    I should have said this (or something similar):

    I want to use this benefit wisely.

    TEKMAN,

    please let us know what you're working on next.

    I recommend trying the winter testing window for that ISACA cert. Besides that, I would say CISSP. Otherwise, since you already have a Masters degree in Telecommunications, I would recommend working on your 'IE, but that is expected to take a looong time. You can probably clear all of the others before completing that one.
     
  13. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Part of my service at my current University is to do the hiring for part time faculty. This year we received a resume of a lady that finished her second doctorate in business (first from a good French school) from a Canadian school and still unable to find work, she is currently in her second post doc year.

    This semester, I had to hire someone for a stats course and a person with a PhD in Computer Science and two masters degree (one in security and other in computer science) applied for the position. The resume showed that the person has not been able to find work for a year and is now trying to apply to teach stats (we did not hire him as he was not qualified to teach stats).

    People with two doctorates, several masters degrees in hard sciences (computer science) seem to be unable to find work. Most of the new positions are for low level jobs (sales, tech support, etc) and they are not able to accommodate people with high skills.

    As degrees are becoming more accessible because the internet, we will start seeing people with several doctorates, several masters, certifications, etc.

    In a capitalist economy, it is not the level of education that counts but the supply and offer for the degree.

    It seems that the professions that are still profitable are the ones that are regulated (e.g. Medicine), a limited number of licenses are given and this regulates the supply.

    You are much better off in Canada with an electrician license than with a PhD in business.
     
  14. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Right now, I am studying for ISACA's CISA exam for December 14. I was able to get student membership for $25.00, and $460.00 for the exam fee. Otherwise, I have to pay over $700.00. I am not sure how the GI Bill works for IT certifications, I know that you'll receive the reimbursement whether you pass or fail. However, I do not know what is the maximum amount you can receive toward certification. I tried to take CCIE training that VA pays for, but non of the technical training company accept GI Bill. Do you know there is any?
     
  15. instant000

    instant000 Member

    TEKMAN:

    Does this make sense to you?

    This means, you can take up to $2,000 for a single test, but based on their math, you'd lose two months of benefits. Still, $1,600 is pretty good, could use towards CCIE Lab, for example, would really help a lot.

    Also, if you get down to only one or two months of benefits left, and you can't find a better way to spend it, the certification tests would be better than nothing, I guess.

    Also, please look into the VCTP from Syracuse. I have my counseling session tomorrow for it.


    Learning Paths | IVMF

    They can hook you up for CISSP and PMP, for example, which would be a good help.


    I saw this message on the Veteran Mentor Network on LinkedIn, which actually answers a question they apparently get a lot about the program:

    Note: VCTP is provided via a GRANT from a Bank (imagine that), so it doesn't cost you your GI Bill benefits!

    So, that would be a way to supplement some of your certifications, hopefully.

    Hope this helps!
     
  16. instant000

    instant000 Member

    On your question with regards to technical training companies that accept GI Bill, someone on a forum posted that New Horizons did, but I don't know if that works for you, or not.

    I found this site, but it only goes up to the professional level for certification.
    Military Training for Armed Forces - GI Bill

    Since you've undoubtedly self-studied just like me to get to the professional level of your Cisco certs, this site probably won't be of much use when tackling the expert level.

    If you do need to consider a vendor, I recommend INE. I bought a subscription there a couple years back, and I got two years subscription for a little over 2K. It was a good deal, since I completed CCNP:R&S, and my wife also got CCNP:Voice while using the training materials. The subscription doesn't run out until February, and I'm going to renew it, because the training and certification has made me way more marketable.

    Also, if you still have a military e-mail address, you can access SKILLPORT. If you don't have access to skillport, you can get it via Robert Half Technology, just apply for a job through them, go to their office, do the test or whatever, and get a skillport login that they never revoke (not even years later). Use it for the skillport training. It's not as good as INE, but it's better than nothing.

    Still, since you appear to have self-studied to the professional level, skillport might not help you that much, either.

    You're undoubtedly looking for expert level, and I don't know what to tell you.

    You can ask INE if they can cut you a discount? They seem to be pretty decent about that.

    Hope this helps.
     
  17. typfromdaco

    typfromdaco New Member

    @instant

    I have a question about the VCTP program. I looked at some of the certification offerings but there is not much information about how the programs works, such as do they just provide you books and you self study? Do they pay for the certifications, and if so, what must you do for the vouchers? I am very interested since it is offered at my favorite price, and I am hopefully getting out soon via med board. Thanks!
     
  18. instant000

    instant000 Member

    typofromdaco:

    Good evening.

    I have an interview session with them tomorrow, so that will allow me a chance to dig into what is required.

    From what I can tell, I believe that you have to successfully clear a pre-test, and then they will give you a voucher for the real thing.

    From this page, it looks like you get Skillsoft Access and Library Access.

    https://answers.syr.edu/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=15892608

    This page seems to answer your reimbursement question:
    Career Transition | IVMF


     
  19. instant000

    instant000 Member

    Since I'm scheduled to interview with VCTP tomorrow afternoon, if everyone would submit all of their questions here, that would be awesome.

    I have these so far:

    1 - What materials are candidates given to study? (Books, online portal, etc.)
    2 - What must a candidate do to receive vouchers for certification examinations?
    3 - Can one re-enter the program in the future?
    4 - If one chooses the 12-month (certificicate-generating) program, how can the completed certificates be listed on the resume?
     
  20. instant000

    instant000 Member

    typofromdaco:

    You still have .mil e-mail address?

    Make sure to register for these before you get out:
    1 - safaribooksonline - unfettered access to the entire library of safari's books, via your DoD affiliation (.mil e-mail address)
    Safari Books Online - Premium - Home

    2 - skillport - the services have a very good skillport access setup, you can also get this via your service affiliation. (Army, for example)
    https://usarmy.skillport.com/skillportfe/custom/login/usarmy/login.action

    3 - test prep services - I seem to have lost my login information somewhere, but you can also go via the service portal, and get access to test-preps (SAT/ACT/GRE).
    I can't find the URL, but I believe that it is affiliated with Princeton Review, via your service portal for Education.

    Oh yeah, please watch this Youtube video about the VCTP, I'm viewing it this evening, to be more prepared for the call tomorrow.

    VetNet Special Presentation: Veterans Career Transition Program (VCTP) Overview - YouTube

    Thanks!
     

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