Disturbing mill advertising

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Chip, May 8, 2001.

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  1. Chip

    Chip Administrator

    Well, I was helping a friend negotiate compensation for a new position he's taking... and I went to salary.com for comparables.

    (BTW, if you haven't checked it out, do. It's probably the most in-depth compensation comparision tool I've seen... and it's free.)

    Anyway, while looking at the results, I glanced at some of the ads over to the right hand side... and there was a nice ad for Kennedy-Western University.

    I'm sending an email to the folks at salary.com, but if anyone else happens to see this ad and feels like sending an email of their own, that might be a good thing.

    Heck, maybe we'll eventually place a little banner ad for degreeinfo there [​IMG]
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Chip, Please make sure they don't place the DegreeInfo banner beside the Kennedy-Western ad. It might give the appearance that DegreeInfo.com is as legitimate as K-W. [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  3. Michael Wilson

    Michael Wilson New Member

    I actually received a flyer from Kennedy-Western *at work*! Since I have a job at a (legitimate) college, you can imagine how embarassed I felt at the thought of that thing lying in my mailbox all day for the world to see. I have absolutely no idea how they got my name or work address. It looked pretty slick--they claimed to be "accredited," and featured quotes from two professors (one was listed as being at Harvard) extolling their virtues.
     
  4. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Michael, I'm really intrigued by the "accredited" claim. KW-U made such a claim many years ago, but I was not aware of it in recent years. Did it really say "accredited," as contrasted with "approved" or "licensed" or all the other weasel-words that schools use? Did it say by whom?

    K-WU has definitely rented lists of faculty at accredited schools and mail to them, inviting them to join K-WU. A tiny percentage do. A former employee of K-WU described it to be as "bottom fishing."
     
  5. Michael Wilson

    Michael Wilson New Member

    John,

    Sorry, I had thrown the flyer away and ended up misquoting it. I fished it out of the trash (where it definitely belongs) and reread it. It states that "Kennedy-Western University is a licensed post secondary institution pursuant to State of Wyoming Private Schools Licensing Act W.S. 21-2-401 ET SEQ."

    They also claim that "you can receive tutorial assistance via E-mail from professors who also teach at schools like the State University of New York, University of Texas-El Paso and University of Arizona--to name just a few!"

    And here are the quotes from the notables:

    "Kennedy-Western University offers self-motivated individuals a wonderful opportunity to excel academicaly in a manner which is conducive to thier personal and professional schedules."

    --John Byrne, Ph. D.
    Ph. D., University of Iowa

    "Kennedy Western University uses excellent textbooks and course material. The quality of what you're learning is comparable to what is being used in traditional universities all across America."

    --Slade Gellin, Ph. D.
    Ph. D., Harvard University

    (I don't know what the redundant doctoral letters are for--maybe they wanted to drive a point home?)

    Byrne is on the faculty of St. Ambrose University in Iowa. His online CV indicates that Kennedy-Western published one of his books in 1998. Gellin is apparently a lecturer in Mechanical Engineering Technology at Buffalo State. Given Byrne's connection to KW, I'm not surprised that he'd make such an endorsement. But I have to wonder if Gellin knows that his name is being used to promote such an enterprise.

    Cheers,

    ------------------
    Michael Wilson
     
  6. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Most intriguingly, a search of the dissertations on contentville.com does not find one for tiehr Gellin or Byrne.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Very interesting! Could this imply that neither Gellin nor Byrne exist? That neither recommendation is legitimate?

    No! K-W would never do such a thing! [​IMG]

    Russell
     
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I just looked at St. Ambrose and there is indeed a John Byrne listed as teaching in their Economics and Business Administration department. I have no way of knowing if this is the same gentleman who endorses K-Y, but he's the only John Byrne that comes up for St. Ambrose. He (and his on-campus e-mail address) can be found through their faculty directoy search page at:
    http://infotech.sau.edu/directory/
     
  9. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    A more general question: Why would a legitimate university faculty member who already has a decent job associate his or her self with a school like K-Y?

    Is it increased income with very little added workload? Does K-Y really pay its faculty (what there are of them) that well? Maybe they get bonuses for making endorsements.

    Or do the faculty feel trapped in what they fear are dead-end positions elsewhere and want to be involved in research, even if it is through advising doctoral students at a school that they know is not accredited?

    What are these people thinking?
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    An e-mail has been sent to Dr. Byrne asking for his recommendation (or not?) of KWU. I shall post his response when received.
     
  11. bgossett

    bgossett New Member

  12. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Bill D asks, Why would a legitimate university faculty member who already has a decent job associate his or her self with a school like K-Y?

    K-Y is the jelly. K-W is the school. Never forget this.

    During my year and a half running Greenwich (1990-1991), we had little trouble signing up adjunct faculty who had good full-time RA university jobs. Five reasons:

    1. Opportunity to work with more interesting students. Many dealt, for instance, with undergraduates in their day job, but were capable of, and interested in, working with graduate students.

    2. Pin money. While most adjuncts worked with just one or two students, there were those that had 8 or 10, thus the opportunity to earn 4 or 5 thousand dollars more a year.

    3. Opportunity to work with already-known students. There were mope than a few cases of someone wishing to join the adjunct faculty in order to continue working with someone that he or she had supervised in a residential program for another degree.

    4. Opportunity to offer known students a less expensive option. For instance, when Stanley Krippner of Saybrook had a potential doctoral student who wanted to work with him but couldn't afford Saybrook, Krippner was able to say, "I can work with you through Greenwich for about 1/10th the cost."

    5. Fun and travel. We invited and helped pay for adjuncts to come to Hawaii for the graduation ceremonies. I don't know if K-W pays for adjuncts to visit their sparsely-populated basement in Wyoming.
     
  13. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Bill D asks, Why would a legitimate university faculty member who already has a decent job associate his or her self with a school like K-Y?

    K-Y is the jelly. K-W is the school. Never forget this.

    During my year and a half running Greenwich (1990-1991), we had little trouble signing up adjunct faculty who had good full-time RA university jobs. Five reasons:

    1. Opportunity to work with more interesting students. Many dealt, for instance, with undergraduates in their day job, but were capable of, and interested in, working with graduate students.

    2. Pin money. While most adjuncts worked with just one or two students, there were those that had 8 or 10, thus the opportunity to earn 4 or 5 thousand dollars more a year.

    3. Opportunity to work with already-known students. There were more than a few cases of someone wishing to join the adjunct faculty in order to continue working with someone that he or she had supervised in a residential program for another degree.

    4. Opportunity to offer known students a less expensive option. For instance, when Stanley Krippner of Saybrook had a potential doctoral student who wanted to work with him but couldn't afford Saybrook, Krippner was able to say, "I can work with you through Greenwich for about 1/10th the cost."

    5. Fun and travel. We invited and helped pay for adjuncts to come to Hawaii for the graduation ceremonies. I don't know if K-W pays for adjuncts to visit their sparsely-populated basement in Wyoming.
     
  14. joybaum

    joybaum New Member

    Well, shoot. That almost makes K-W sound like a legitimate DL option!
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Same purpose. Same result. [​IMG]

    Rich Douglas
     
  16. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    I don't mean to make waves here. I logged on to the site and found my own dissertation. (Good news for me! I really did attend graduate school after all!) However, to be fair to the two individuals in question, I did a search on "John Bear" and "Jonathan Bear" finding a graduate of Texas Tech (1960) and a graduate of Virginia (1995), respectively. Of course, we all know our Dr. Bear to be a graduate of Michigan State University. Perhaps "John" is a middle name or a nickname? In any case, I want to emphasize that I certainly do not doubt John's credentials or his integrity. Perhaps in the interest of fairness, however, we should give these two individuals the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately, whether they have doctoral degrees or not, their association with K-W, K-Y, or whatever, is clearly less than admirable. In any case, thanks for mentioning the site! It may come in handy in the future.

    Waiting for the flames,

    Mark
     
  17. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Mark writes about not finding my dissertation on www.contentville. Indeed. Every year or two, it seems necessary and appropriate to repeat the story of the more-than-30-years-ago time when John Klempner and Marina Dobrolubova got married and decided (hey, it was the 60s) to take a new name rather than either of theirs or, heaven forfend, become a 7-syllable hyphenation. Thus Bear. If Contentville or UMI are capable of cross-referencing, they haven't demonstrated it to me. At least Michigan State generally gets it straight when people ask.

    There are times when I wish I, too, had studied 7,12-Dimethylbenz(A)anthracene. I bet no one has ever sued Dr. Morse because they didn't like what he wrote about that

    John Bear
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The following e-mail was sent to Dr. John Byrne on 5-12-01:

    Dr. Byrne,

    In a recent brochure published by Kennedy-Western University, I read where you have endorsed and recommended KWU. Does KWU offer a solid substantive program, and would you recommend KWU?

    A reply was received several hours later:

    Yes Russell. Keep in mind that it is a distance education program and while it does not have as many opportunities for student-student interaction, the curriculum is well designed and comprehensive. Good luck in your educational pursuits!

    John P. Byrne, Ph.D.
    Associate Professor-College of Business
    St. Ambrose University
    Davenport, IA
    319-333-6406
     
  19. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    It does make one wonder how the regionally-accredited St. Ambrose University would appreaciate one of their associate profs recommending an unaccredited university that cannot even accept students from the state where it operates.


    Tom Nixon
     
  20. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    Here is the citation:

    PEOPLE WHO WRITE IN: COMMUNICATION
    ASPECTS OF OPINION-LETTER WRITING
    by John Andrew Klempner
    Degree : PHD
    School : MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY (0128)
    Date : 1966
    Pages : 299
    Subject: Psychology, Social (0451)

    BTW, if anyone wants to buy it, Contentville will gladly sell it to you for $31 (unbound).


    Tom Nixon
     

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