A discussion on which would be the better choice: William Howard Taft or British American University? I believe you can practice in Federal Courts in any state by passing the California bar. Is this a correct assumption. My state, Alabama, does not honor any correspondence law degree although it does honor non ABA schools - Birmingham School of Law, Jones Law School in Montgomery are two that come to mind. Opinions, please. ------------------ Howard Rodgers
Howard; See my posts regarding BAU. It is NOT true that you can be admitted to any federal court once you are admitted in California. Check the local rules of each US District Court you are interested in. Some will admit members in good standing of any state bar, while others admit only members of the bar from certain states, usually those served by that District Court. Best wishes, Christopher
I believe that some of the federal agencies, such as the Interstate Commerce Commission, have their own federal bar exam, which one must pass to practice before that commission, and that a California bar pass, even from a non-ABA school, qualifies one to take those bars.
Miles College is a possibility as well. You can also sit for the Alabama bar if you have practiced law in a state which extends commity to Alabama for a period of at least five years. (California, for instance. There are others, but at the time I was looking, Oak Brook seemed to be the most likely.) Not much hope for us here in Alabama. Kevin
Admission to practice in California permits one to apply for admission to some (but not all) U.S. District Courts. If one wishes to appear before a federal administrative agency, it is wise to check the rules. The U.S. Patent office has it's own exam, the "patent bar." There are additional requirements, usually an undergraduate degree in a relevant field, such as engineering or science. Admission to practice in California also enables one to apply to appear before a Court under "pro hac vice" rules. This permits appearance in an individual case, and is discretionary with the Court. It is basically a one time admission, and may require co-counsel admitted to practice before that Court. Another interesting exception deals with corporate counsel. Some states permit an attorney in good standing to be employed as corporate counsel without being admitted in that state. My take--If you want to hang a shingle and offer legal services to the public, you need to be admitted in that state. The exceptions are limited. Christopher
There is a small body of case law from state courts dealing with the right of the state to regulate the practice of law before federal tribunals. I don't think that a bright line yet exists. For instance, I am admitted to the bar of the U.S. District Court for Hawai'i but not the HI state bar. The state law seems to say that I could open an office and do bankruptcy for the public without state interference. On the other hand, the state of Maryland recently sanctioned a D.C. lawyer for doing almost the same thing in Maryland. There is, moreover, a movement these days toward "MJP", Multi-Jurisdictional Practice. My state, New Mexico,is considering adopting a rule allowing reciprocity with some 20 other states whose bars would grant reciprocity to New Mexico lawyers. This is a sign of the increasing nationalization in law practice. Oregon, Washington, and Idaho just adopted a similar rule amongst themselves. In any case, the only sure egal credential you can get is a J.D. from an ABA accredited law school. Nosborne (who hates the ABA and all its works)
Nosborn, You may have listed where you obtained your JD in previous posts, if so, please forgive me----but could you tell me and also what were your experiences with the school? ------------------ Howard Rodgers
For useful information concerning multijurisdictional practice, including corporate counsel rules, visit http://www.crossingthebar.com Christopher
I received my J.D. from the University of New Mexico in Albuquerque in 1986. (THAT long ago??) UNM is a state school and therefore: 1) Harder to get into than you might expect because it is 2) Cheap. I paid a total of about $2,500 for all three years' tuition. Now it's up to about $3,500 a year, I guess. Still a good deal, though. I loved the place. It has a low student/faculty ratio and its (mandatory) clinical program is rated among the top ten in the country. It is NOT, however, the school you want if your goal is to make a killing on Wall Street or even if you hope to teach at an Ivy League school... Nosborne
This kills me. (With regards to perception of your school by those in Ivy League academia.) - We have headaches with accreditation vs. non-accreditation - We have issues over what is "real" accreditation - We have to deal with perceptions of if a DL degree is a "real" degree or not. - And in the law field we have to deal with "school image" too. Quite frankly I wish there was a better way .... Oh well.
School image is a real issue, wherever you go. Here where I live, there are two local universities. Well to do families, who are concerned about what their well to do neighbors think, tend to send their children to university A, rather than university B. University A has been around longer and has a more auspicious campus, down by the sea. University B has a great view, up on the hill where it is. I know someone whose parents refused to pay her tuition if she wished to go to University B. Keep in mind, where I live, all universities come into being by an act of provincial law, and so, technically, both universities are legally on equal footing. Why do they have differing local "status"? Beats me. It probably goes back to the late sixties, when university B came into being, and nobody really remembers the reasons. Some of the locals may claim that no distinction exists between the two, but it does. Quinn
Well, I shouldn't have made my blanket pronouncment. I suppose that there could be several University of New Mexico law grads making killings on Wall Street or teaching at Harvard. But I doubt it. Here's why: 1) The quality of the law school isn't the issue. UNM has a good program and I don't think anyone, even at Harvard, would say otherwise. 2) Legally, the UNM degree is the exact equivalent to the Harvard J.D. as far as the various state bars and federal agencies are concerned. HOWEVER, 3) Wall Street and big firms select their clerks based on personal contacts. "Who do you know?" is important because in theory it will lead to "Who are your clients?" If James Atherton Whitmore Cabot III played polo with you when you prepped at Groton, James A.W. Cabot III is more likely to turn to you for help when his firm, Amalgamated Cabot Colonial Brutality, Inc., needs legal help. As for teaching, the majority of law teachers are graduates of the so-called national schools like Harvard, Yale, Chicago and the like, probably also because of the contacts they've made... Nosborne
I think the school plays into that also. During a trial, I had lunch with a defense attorney (not the one on my case) who told me an amusing story. After he graduated law school (New England School of Law) and taken the bar exam, he was working as a waiter at a hotel in Cambridge, Massachusetts, while he waited for his bar results. One particular week, the hotel hosted recruiters from the big-time law firms, who were there to recruit Harvard Law students as summer interns. These second year students were getting huge money for summer jobs, while the poor NE Law **graduate** was making $5 per hour plus tips, serving them drinks. Bruce
Heh heh ... gives a new twist for the term "waiter". (He was a waiter while he waited ....) <drum roll>
I differ slightly with Nosborne's interpretation of the situation in terms of the value of personal contacts, though not in ultimate result. But because the discussion is relevant to anyone considering a DL law degree, I'll explain . . . While personal contacts & networks may play *some* role in getting hired by a large law firm, it's primarily through on-campus recruiting at law schools where the majority of large law firms get their new hires. And here is where the hierarchy comes into play: At the top 15 or so law schools (as measured by the U.S. News rankings or similar ones), several hundred law firms from all over the country descend upon the campus to hold interviews with 2d and 3d year law students. When I was at NYU Law in the mid-80s, we could expect over 600 law firms, corporations, govt. agencies, and public interest groups to hold interviews in any given year. In almost every case, employers were not permitted to pre-screen resumes, meaning that everyone had a shot at snagging the interviews. The opposite holds true the deeper one goes into that hierarchy of law schools. At most law schools, between 25 and 100 employers will interview on campus. It means that most students at those schools get their jobs through other methods. In fact, who you know and personal networking is more important at these institutions than at one of the elite law schools. The law school I teach at (Suffolk in Boston, an ABA school) is seen as a more regional institution, which means that most of the large firms in the area will interview our top students, but students who aren't at the top of their class or who are looking outside the area must use other means to secure jobs. For those who are considering DL law programs for the eventual purpose of taking a bar exam and practicing law, these points must be underscored. Barring exceptional personal contacts or super-extraordinary other qualifications, hiring attorneys at law firms and public service agencies are not going to be considering DL law students or graduates for positions. At best, a DL law graduate could hang out a shingle or go into practice with people s/he knows, but the more selective legal employers aren't going to be paying much attention. Unlike some, I don't condemn DL law programs in a wholesale manner. I think they can serve a very useful purpose for people who need or want an understanding of the law. But even a DL law program involves a ton of time and work and a fair amount of money, so before enrolling in one I strongly advise knowing the lay of the land before doing so.
There is one area where a D/L grad might find a job and that's in rural public service, at the municipal or state level. Out here in the desert West, we have enough trouble recruiting lawyers of any sort that we can ill afford to be choosy about the school. HOWEVER, the D/L grad has to practice at least five years as a member of some other state bar before we'll let him take the New Mexico bar, so we don't see many. (Or any, actually, but we DO see non-ABA grads out here.) Nosborne
