Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by laferney, Jan 18, 2004.
In the Point Loma MA program in the 1960s one could do six units instead of a thesis. I did the extra units though I was advised to do the thesis. . Those extra units would not have gotten me into the Unizul ThD studies. UZ requires a prior thesis be done as evidence of the ability to do research. But the Western ThM did require a thesis; doing that served to fulfill the UZ prerequisite for entering doc work. It's my understanding that some RA US doc programs also have as an doc entry requirement the former completion of a master's thesis. That makes sense to me.
The information that I have indicates that in 1950, John Nash submitted his doctoral dissertation entitled, "Non-Cooperative Games" for his PhD in Mathematics. It was 27 pages long. It resulted in his receiving the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1994.
And then there are the differences between a dissertation for a Ph.D. which is a research degree and a dissertation for an Ed.D./Psy.D./D.Min/D.M.A. etc which are professional degrees. You briefly mentioned it. Of course the common health related doctorates don't have dissertations - M.D./D.O./D.D.S./D.V.M. etc.
I thought all British specialists (consultants) were referred to as Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms - I'm thinking of the Harley Street consultants. "Doctor" being used by the GPs.
An interesting side note on this. There is no Nobel Prize in Mathematics. Most mathematicians who make great enough discoveries to warrant a Nobel Prize end up with the one for physics. This is the first time I ever heard of a mathematician receiving the Novel Prize in Econ, but I'm sure it happens since I don't really follow the prizes.
The reason for this, as it was explained to me by a PhD holder in Math, is that Alfred Nobel was a shunned lover. I forget some of the details, but it revolves around him losing a girlfriend or wife to a prominent mathematician. When he created the Nobel prizes, he wanted to ensure that this mathematician never received his award, or maybe he wanted to punish all mathematicians for this one guy. All's fair in love, withholding an award, and war, dynamite.
Thanks for researching it. I guess a few of my gray cells are still working - bearly.
No, not all consultants become Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms! Only those who are surgeons! Consultant Physicians remain as Dr (or professor if they have a professorship). The same would be true for a consultant surgeon. Only if they gained a professorship and/or a title (Sir or Lord -Dame or Baronness for women) would they let go of the Mr, Mrs, Miss title! Likewise with a consultant physician, then they would let go of the Dr title. Isn't the Uk system all very quirky!
It seems well established in this thread that in the U.S. the doctorate requires a dissertation and the master's degree a thesis. Yet... Harvard University's School of Business requires a "doctoral thesis" for its DBA program. Anyone ever heard of Harvard?
You mean that little school on the Charles River in Boston, Massachusetts, USA ? The one that is pronounced without the "H".
I think they like to go by the initials WGU - Worlds Greatest University.
Whether or not it's really the WGU, it's located in Cambridge. There have been some interesting newspaper articles related to the land holdings of Harvard (much of it in Boston) but the campus itself is firmly afixed within the bounds of Cambridge. It's an easy mistake to make from way over there in California - just a small deflection in the trajectory - but from back here in Massachusetts, the difference is huge.
(where Boston is "Boston" and Cambridge is "The People's Republic of Cambridge"
I cannot speak toward the D.Min, Psy.D. or D.M.A., I can speak about the Ed.D.
Although the Ed.D. was envisioned originally as a professional degree to replace the Ph.D. in education, that never happened. The Ed.D. at almost every major university is a research degree with a research dissertation that is virtually identical to the Ph.D. in education.
The major research study in this area looked at over 1,000 dissertations from Ed.D. and Ph.D. programs and did not find any difference in rigor. The major study of entrance and coursework requirements for Ed.D. and Ph.D. programs in education found no significant difference between the two.
Faculty, California State U. San Bernardino
Your Right !!! I knew it - I've visited WGU, but but my fingers insisted on typing Boston.
Cambridge sounds like a sister state to the "People's Republic of Berkeley". The two coasts have a lot in common.
Thanks for the research info. Even though the dissertations appear equal, isn't there still the perception that the Ed.D. is not of the same academic rigor as a PhD ? Are Ed.D.s evaluated the same as Ph.D.s when hiring university level faculty ?
Well, there certainly are some folks out there who seem to think that an Ed.D. is, somehow "lower" that a Ph.D. In my expereince, they seem to fall into two camps: 1) Those who think that any degree in education is lower than a Ph.D. in any other subject and who are often unaware that Ph.D.s in education exist and 2) Those who heard from someone that the the Ph.D. is the better degree and are unaware of the similarities or differences between the two degrees. I know many in both categories, but far more in the latter. I can't blame then for not knowing the research. Only a few academic nuts like myself care enough to seek out the research in this area. I possess most of the studys that have been done during the past couple of decades.
Every research study comparing the Ph.D. in education to the Ed.D. has shown no significant difference in academic rigor of the programs or the requirements for research and dissertation. Ed.D. dissertations tend to have a higher rate of survey-type research, but the rigor of such dissertations is not necessarily any less than other research designs.
I have been on hiring committess for several administrative and faculty candidates. In every instance, the Ph.D. and Ed.D. were treated as equal. The few surveys of deans of schools of education showed no significant preference for Ph.D. over Ed.D. A glance at the faculty listings at most schools of education will reveal a mixture of Ed.D.s and Ph.D.s
The simple fact is that some colleges offer the Ed.D. while others offer the Ph.D. At the masters level it is the same (some education programs offer the MA, MS or MEd). there has been no study in the field of education that has established the superiority of one degree over another. Harvard and Columbia schools of Education offer only an Ed.D. I would venture a guess that they would be considered rigorous.
On a personal note, I have been a student in both a Ph.D. and Ed.D. program and they were not much different.
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino
A dissertation or thesis is a document submitted in support of candidature for an academic degree or professional qualification presenting the author's research and findings. In some countries/universities, the word "thesis" or a cognate is used as part of a bachelor's or master's course, while "dissertation" is normally applied to a doctorate, whilst, in others, the reverse is true.
The term dissertation can at times be used to describe a treatise without relation to obtaining an academic degree. The term thesis is also used to refer to the central claim of an essay or similar work. - REMOVED
Holy threadbump Batman! :Eyecrazy:at::yikes::smileeek::shocked::lmao:
This appears to be an attempt to promote a plagiarism service where a person is paid to write a thesis on behalf of another. The link should be removed.
Thanks for pointing that out Dr. P. The link has been removed and the user has been banned.
My nephew is a Mister (or consultant) and radiologist - he earned a BM (as a first degree), did a medical internship, then passed the exams of the Royal College of Radiologists to earn his FRCR designation. In the UK fellowship of a Royal Society is usually more important (and pretentious) than a masters degree or doctorate degree.
Incidentally my daughter had to write a dissertation during her BSc studies in the UK.
I did a Master of Letters throught the University of New England here in Australia. Part of course was a dissertation of 15,000 words. For other students doing exactly the same work but for a Bachelor of Arts with Honours, it was called a thesis.
It seems that the term"thesis" is more commonly used here now for all kinds of research work. They would vary in length from 15-20,000 words for an honours degree or a largely course work masters, to 40-60,000 words for a purely research masters to 100,000 words for Ph. D, which is research only.
Separate names with a comma.