Detc Accrediting Meeting This Weekend.

What kind of a "course of action" do you mean? Could you please elaborate?

 

Future DBA: "What kind of a "course of action" do you mean? Could you please elaborate?"

John Bear: I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough. By "course of action that would result in a University of Wales credential," I meant taking the action of doing a degree or credential program at Columbia College in Canada, Saint Petersburg Christian University in Russia, the Wessex Institute of Technology in England, or one of the other hundred-or-so institutions that have been validated by the University of Wales and thus would result in a University of Wales credential.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Doctor.

I have a degree from one of the hundred-or-so institutions that result in a University of Wales credential. Please let me know how I can help.

 

DETC what's happening? any news?

By now, at least one or two places have posted their DETC accreditation. What is going on? Are all of these schools so bad they are just not putting out the news? I really thought and continue to think California Southern University has a good shot, The other law school, and education entity from Georgia.

What do you think is taking so long?

Robbie

 

I still believe there should be a national accreditation agency operated by the US Dept of Education. Do away with the regionals. With distance learning, boundaries are more fluid or should be. I far more support national accreditations than the chopped up jig saw stuff we have going on now. We need to catch up with technology.

 

I don't know that University of Wales is a degree mill. However, it does appear that this institution has serious issues of some kind, because the top schools in Wales are making a major effort to disassociate themselves from it.

Earlier this year, Cardiff, Bangor, Swansea, and Aberystwyth Universities (the four highest-rated schools from the UoW system) announced that they were forming an independent alliance, along with University of Glamorgan (the top-rated Welsh school outside the UoW system). The new alliance claims to represent more than 70% of Welsh students, and more than 95% of Welsh university research activity.

So the "University of Wales" now consists of only seven smaller and less prestigious Welsh schools, along with whatever international institutions that UoW may choose to validate. According to the Independent: "This development marks the end of the University of Wales as we have known it".

The Independent also comments that "The desire of the big five to distinguish themselves from the remaining seven is all about brand and status." The obvious implication is that "University of Wales" name has become deficient in the "brand" and "status" categories. It seems possible that UoW's external validation practices may have something to do with this perception.

So the University of Wales may not be a degree mill -- but it's not prestigious anymore either. It's now a small, second-tier player as far as Welsh academia goes.

 

Here's some stuff about U of W. Make of it what you will.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=26&storycode=406803&c=1

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/good_university_guide/article6379269.ece

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pune/Seminar-on-MBA-programme-in-UK/articleshow/4595364.cms

http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2009/05/24/news0096.htm

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/090614/Education/ed711.html

This might be the definitive news article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/all-change-in-wales-as-the-big-five-universities-break-away-1695935.html

 

Yes I totally agree. It's not prestigious anymore. No one said that the University of Wales is Oxford .. or Harvard. All I'm saying is the the UoW is 115 year old, established by means of Royal Charter, headed by the Prince of Wales as its Chancellor, and recognized by the UK government. Is that not enough?

 

I really don't understand what message you're trying to convey here. Maybe you could educate us? Because I read these articles more than once but still couldn't make sense out of them. Please excuse my ignorance, I'm a University of Wales graduate

 

I really didn't want to take this debate any further. That's why I thanked Chip on June 11 hoping that would end the discussion. But making my alma mater look like a degree mill is just unacceptable. I hope that some members of this forum would ask current or former students about their experience and the whether they received good education in any school before ripping these schools apart without any empirical evidence.

Now let's take a look at some basic questions:

1. Is UoW a legitimate school? YES
2. Is UoW recognized by the official authorities in the UK? YES
3. Did I receive quality education? YOU BET
4. Was it an easy degree? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I worked my tail off.
5. Did it help me professionally? ABSOLUTELY. I'm much more confident about my knowledge than I was 2 years ago. I have introduced, promoted and have been leading strategic planning for all of our group companies--something I couldn't have done 2 years ago.
6. Did it make me a better person? YES INDEED. Through my study of organizational behavior and leadership, I now have a better understanding of people's behavior, which helps me better deal with my wife, children, friends, and colleagues.

Now let's take a look at the professors who facilitated the courses I took, and their credentials:

1. Organizational Behavior
MBA, The Peter F. Drucker and Masatoshi Ito Graduate School at Claremont Graduate University.
BS in Management and Organization Behavior form the University of La Verne, in California.

2. Financial Management
3. Strategic Management
MA in Engineering Science from Oxford University.
MBA from Harvard Business School.

4. Entrepreneurship
M.A. in Engineering Science with First Class Honors from Oxford University.
MBA with High Distinction from Harvard Business School.
PhD, Lausanne University

5. Marketing Management
BA in Marketing, Harvard
MBA in Marketing & Entrepreneurship from the University of Southern California.

6. e-Business
MBA, Thunderbird, School of Global Management in Glendale, Arizona.
PhD, Capella University

7. Applied Leadership
BS Electrical Engineering, Drexel University
BS Computation, Oxford University
International Business Management Program, Georgetown University
MS Project Management, George Washington University
MS Telecommunications Program, Columbia University in NY
MBA, Technology Management, Drexel University
ALM, Mathematics and Computation, Harvard University
PhD candidate, Walden University

8. My dissertation supervisor
A senior lecturer at the University of Chester

I guess that's not bad.

OK this has been my last post on this topic. I have nothing to add to the discussion.

Have a great day everyone.

 

I believe that U of Wales is equivalent to a US regionally accredited school.

However, all indications are that they have, for some unknown reason, chosen to "validate" some less-than-stellar programs that would probably not otherwise have any claim to legitimacy. When there are 100+ such programs, it begins to strain credibility that a single school could handle appropriate oversight of so many institutions.

Also, the arguments used in your paragraphs 3,4,5 and 6 on your list are very standard apologia used by holders of degrees from unwonderful schools.

Does all of this discussion make U Wales a mill? Most definitely not. Does it raise some questions about what the school is doing? Most definitely.

 

By the way, has anyone noticed the deafening silence from Mary A and American Sentinel on the old AICS issue earlier in this thread?

Interesting that she brought up the "musty old" argument about the black eye that AICS accreditation gave to DETC, but when I suggested a simple solution to make the problem go away.... no response has been forthcoming.

I think that, in itself, is telling.

 

Back to the original topic of the thread ...

I noticed today that there's a PDF document linked on the front page of DETC.org (middle column, "NEW: 2009-2010 Directory of Accredited Institutions") dated June 9 ... of the "First Time Applicants" listed in their Spring 2009 newsletter the only one that seems to be on the list is "California Miramar University".

Does this mean all the others weren't accredited?

 

Don't know, but I saw Aspen's review didnt have their new ECE Degree (http://www.aspen.edu/ece/index.htm)

Given all the ECE AA degrees I am surprised this isn't a degree completion program.

 

Thanks.

I totally agree

Thanks for the insult.

I agree.

 

Arguments 3,4,5, and 6 are frequently repeated by people protecting their mill degree. It is not an insult, it is simply a statment indicating that that they really aren't very convincing arguments.

 

The DETC list is up and it looks like California Miramar University is the Lone Ranger of new schools.

 

IMO, no:

[From the Independent link posted earlier]:
"The older established Welsh universities look a little askance at the University ever since 2004 when the Quality Assurance Agency announced that it had "limited confidence" in the standards of degrees from the University of Wales."

A number of British universities are marketing themselves aggressively here in the States, constructing a veneer of the attributes you've listed as well as vaguely impressive-sounding brand names (most potential US MBA students know who Princess Di's husband was).

FWIW, UoW is no more or less sleazy with respect to validation than the big name, regionally-accredited US schools marketing credentials under the auspices of "University Alliance":

http://www.universityalliance.com/

 

California Miramar. Well, well, well.

I do still have my tape of the segment on American Journal in which their undercover reporter was able to buy a Master's degree, no questions asked, in less than ten days.

Clearly they have improved a bit since then.

But I still wonder why the new owner bought the school, if he intended to change the name, the program, and the level of honesty. What did he buy? The only answer I can think of is: the list of alumni, apparently more than 25,000 of them. I wonder if they'll be getting letters with an opportunity to upgrade?

 

First the University of Atlanta...and now California Miramar University. I wonder how seriously students will take these newly-accredited schools, especially if they know the history of these institutions. Although they have obviously changed their business practices and met the DETC's accrediting standards, is overcoming a checkered past really as easy as changing the name of the school? Are there any examples of schools that changed their names in a bid to escape a less-than-wonderful past, only to fail anyway?