Degree Mill Shilling?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by DaveHayden, Aug 30, 2003.

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  1. kf5k

    kf5k member


    DETC schools are fully accredited by the DETC which is recognized by CHEA-USDOE and meet GAAP. DETC schools offer -Associate's-Bachelor's-Master's degrees.
     
  2. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Famous Guinness Stout slogan from the 1970s:
    "I've never tried it because I don't like it."


    Deserves-to-be-famous slogan from Mr. kf5k:
    "I've never read it because I know it's all crap."
     
  3. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Vanity, whatever its source, is silly and degrading.

    Real research, however unendearingly touted,
    beats instrumentless self-proctology all to hell.

    Better a Privatdozent with the airs of a Staatsrat
    than a Dreckkuenstler with the smell of his artistry.
     
  4. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Oh, pardon me . . . I saw the word shill in the subject line for this thread, and naturally assumed that it was about Rich.

    Sorry to interrupt. :D
    _________________________

    Okay, I admit it . . . I can't resist the opportunity for a below-the-belt joke.

    That said, I have to take Rich's side in this thread. His research is quite sound, even if he did use it for his doctorates from Greenwich and from Potch.

    Oh, wait a second . . . that was Rick (Walston), not Rich (Douglas).

    Seriously, when Rich is right, he's right. And I did enjoy watching him obliterate some of the silly arguments in this thread.
     
  5. kf5k

    kf5k member

    Slogan for Mr. Bear:
    "I've sold them, took the money, and I liked it, but now I don't."
     
  6. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    OK, so better examples of shilling I couldn't have come up with. First Kf5k comes up with the above post which is pretty straight forward. While I strongly disagree with it, it lays his opinion out clearly. When others respond with their opinion backed up by facts, he takes it as personal insult. Instead of coming up with facts to support his opinion he talks with all the shill talk and insults.

    Is it a matter of thin skin, shilling, or ? Doesn't he understand that the shill talk destoys whatever creditability he had? It also makes his DETC accredited school look like a joke.
     
  7. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Mr. kf5k: Slogan for Mr. Bear: "I've sold them, took the money, and I liked it, but now I don't."

    John: That's Doctor Bear.

    If I may deconstruct your fabulously clever riposte, you seem to be saying:

    1. John Bear has sold books.
    2. John Bear has received money for selling books.
    3. In these books, John Bear has offered his opinion on more than 2,000 degree-granting institutions.
    4. In the course of 29 years of doing this, schools have changed, laws have changed, the world has changed, and John Bear's opinions have changed.

    You're right.

    So?
     
  8. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Dave:

    I agree with you 100% here about the statement James made, but have to ask where are you when some on the other side antagonize him? I think there are some here that use these kind of statements to provoke, and flame simply because they enjoy starting something. These are the same people that claim to be great contributors here, but they measure their contributions by confrontations. I am of the opinion that there is a big difference between a contributor, and a positive contributor.

    Regards,

    Scott
     
  9. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Scott

    I agree with part of what you are saying, but when some one who has been here a month or two posts to Dr Bear, Dr Douglas, or others the way James has there is no excuse. James was not provoked in any way in this thread and yet he writes like a 3rd grade bully speaks. I consider all the board members that have posted here over a year (and many of the new ones) to be important contributors. The few that I would classify otherwise have gone away. To be honest I think it is time James' violations of TOS be enforced or he be given a finally warning.
     
  10. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Dave:

    I agree with you about this thread, but there have been many threads where people have been provoked without cause. It is on both sides of the fence, and was done before James arrived. It just does not seem right that it depends on which side of the argument that you are on as to whether you are called down or not. When someone steps over the line no matter what side they are on he or she should be called down. If the person's arguments, or tactics are a reference to the education a school produces then there are some on the other side that do their alma mater no justice at all either.

    (Not intended for you) If people are going to be called down for misspelling, or using bad grammar then they should do it to all, or none. These should not be tools to be used just when you disagree with someone.


    Regards,

    Scott
     
  11. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Scott

    I think the admins wisely err on the side of not interferring. There have only been a couple of times they have stepped in, and I believe those included multiple identities.

    I think your second point is very valid except when some one is shilling a degree mill and have the most basic of errors in their posts.

    Personally, I am glad both you and Gus are amoung the posters here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2003
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    With all due respect, I must disagree. The admins wisely refuse to discuss past incidents of violations of the TOS but my view is that they come down fairly when the TOS is violated. They give a fair amount of latitude to everyone, which I believe is proper.

    If you look back at the abuse that James has dished out against Rich. Much of that was technically against the TOS. Yet they allow it to continue even though his most recent attacks have even impinged on the honesty of research of some very honest senior members. The only way this can be forgiven, IMHO, is that intellectual and academic honesty is something that is apparently foreign to James. He doesn't really appreciate how personally insulting he was being, accusing them of being liars and fabricating research.

    Another example (from my perspective) is when you and company were attacking Gus trying to get him to give out personal information that he wasn't willing to share. That too was getting very personal at times.
     
  13. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    I happily stand corrected.:)

    I do think that the point of my original post is still valid, even though the specific example I used has proven to have some inaccuracies. ;) . By the way, does anyone know if COSC or TESC and DETC school graduates have gotten into similar top tier schools?

    Jon
     
  14. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    That is what I am getting at. Why? If someone is going to bring up grammar, and spelling they should do it to whomever. Hell, I know I could improve in this area even though I did great in my English courses. (Thank God for spell check) If someone is going to go after James about spelling, and grammar then they should go after anyone else that is on the opposite side that may do the same or leave all of that out.

    Scott
     
  15. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    Bill:


    I do not recall mentioning the TOS. Frankly, I am tired of hearing the TOS thing coming up so much lately. It seems the ones that want to mention the TOS so much are the ones that don't like hearing something coming back at them.

    I was talking about people calling someone down about spelling, and grammar. I just think that some use that as a tool to try to put down the person that they are arguing with. Sometimes in the same thread someone will make many mistakes that agrees with him or her, and nothing is ever mentioned about it. That to me is not right.

    Me, and company? Would that be Dennis Ruhl? You think Dennis, and I are conspiring together to get Gus. :D :D Thanks for the ab flex, or as you say belly laugh.


    Regards,

    Scott
     
  16. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    I think we disagree on this one Scott. In general I think spelling and punctuation is secondary. When someone is saying a degree mill is legit and is making the most basic of errors their incompetence is definately an indicator of their level of education. I am only speaking in general here.
     
  17. plcscott

    plcscott New Member

    As opposed to when someone makes the same basic errors with a quality RA degree, but certainly not an indicator of their education. Yep, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. It is nice that we can do that though.

    Regards,

    Scott
     
  18. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Like I mentioned Scott I think this one we disagree on. I have never seen a post that says RA degrees are discriminated against and should be as acceptable as RA degrees(?). If I do and the poster is unable to use basic grammar I will definately apply the same standard to it. Again this is not about a few simple typos, but instead about using elementery and high school skills.
     
  19. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Somebody ring? If you are going to argue for the superiority or equality of a category often regarded as second-rate, do it in something resembling standard English. Otherwise, you aren't very convincing, and may well do harm to your cause. This is not rocket science.

    Now, I must admit that I do not understand terms like "call down", so I may be misinterpreting. We have not been speaking Indo-European languages all that long in my family, and I may well be missing something here.

    However, I will cerdamntainly use any form of polemic within the TOS anywhere, anytime, against anybody I wish. If you (whoever you may be) are offended by my finding subliterate English pretty stupid on a forum devoted to "higher" education, and yet are not offended by veiled personal threats, attacks on serious research, imputations of bias where none is demonstrable, and questioning the character of honorable men (some of whom I esteem greatly, and some of whom I regard as jackasses--but yet honorable), then, sir, your sense of offense is itself offensive, petulant, self-indicting, and utterly uncouth--in short, sir, it is crap.
     
  20. kf5k

    kf5k member

    John Bear also sold unaccredited degrees from Greenwich University. Degrees that your buddy tells the entire world are all but worthless, and you never defend your former students one single time. You only get on here to defend the views of people like Rich. Are the degrees you sold worthless and of little value? If you have changed your mind and now say they are virtually of no value, as your pal does, then you should contact every person that attended Greenwich while you were there and apologize. Either they were real degrees, and offered/offer value to your former students or you sold garbage, and now walk away from them. I have never made one single dollar from an unaccredited school. Can you or Rich Douglas say that? "AND" I am a shill??? If I had been involved in selling unaccredited degrees I would certainly have the guts to stand up for what I did, and the students I had. I wouldn't step back and unload on them or allow people like Rich to do it without at least offering some positive words for the people that bought my diplomas. These people used Greenwich with expectations of quality and the ability to use these degrees. Do you now tell them, so sorry you're on your own now, I'm different??? new day??? must move on ??? not my problem??? Maybe it's no longer your problem or concern, but it's still their problem, if Douglas is correct, and I say he's not. I say there is value to the degrees sold by CCU/Greenwich and others. That people have used these degrees in many positive ways and have had many positive experiences because of having earned State Approved/ Sate Authorized diplomas. I say that Rich Douglas is wrong, and that to the general public these State Approved degrees have a positive face, very positive face. The many small/medium sized businesses of America neither know, or in many cases care how or when education has been acquired. They hire for all reasons, education being only part of the picture. A degree from CCU or from your old Greenwich school meets many of these goals. Some got these degrees for self satisfaction, and they get that and more. There is still a place for schools like CCU, Pacific Western, SCUPS and Greenwich. You may not defend them anymore, but "I Will."
     

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