Deakin University School of Law

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by nosborne48, May 16, 2005.

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  1. ABDULLAH

    ABDULLAH New Member

    Nosborne48 wrote "Desecretion of a koran is something that i'd be perfectly willing to do myself to further the fight against those who do no more than burn my country flag, let alone drive airplane to our public building."
    Norborne, even a high school student in usa knows that ,it is your thirst, your unquenchable thirst for their oil that led to all these things to happened to you. why did't they drive their planes and destroy chinese public buildings? stay out of their countries oil reserves and let see if any" muslim" can burn your flag. why did't they burn japanese flag? Is you double standard and economy hegemony that caused that.
    you want to control iraq oil , saudi, iran, gulf of guinea ,so you have to pay for the consequences that will follow that.
    You concluded your stuff by saying , "these people (muslims) are ever our mortal enemies." yes , accepted we(muslims) are your swore enemies, and will continue to be so forever.
    I'm raged and ashamed by this your latest thread against my faith(islam).This is a public forum, not a place where you will express your bigotry and we remain silent.
     
  2. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    Maybe it's because the Great Spirit told the Muslim guys driving that plane to destroy the evil symbol of the devil white man's expropriation of American Indian land. Should we ask Dr. Churchill? He'd know, wouldn't he?
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    ABDULLAH,

    Your view of the War in Iraq being about oil agrees absolutely with my own. If my vigorous speech concerning Koran desecration offends you, let me say this:

    No book, NO book, whether bible or Koran or Torah, NO book is worth a human life. I would glady commit obscenities on a Holocaust Torah if I thought doing so would save a single human life.

    And that is what I meant.

    I will be completely honest with you and the others who post here. I have no use for any religion whose followers use it to justify murder. Al Quaida does exactly that. Offending their sensibilities troubles me not at all.

    Finally, let me say that I am personally grateful to you for posting. I find it very easy to dehumanize groups who launch deadly attacks against my fellow citizens. Hearing from an INDIVIDUAL helps keep me from doing that.
     
  4. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill New Member

    May I be so bold to ask, if the oil producing nations didn't sell the oil to the West, what value would the oil have to those nations? Do the oil producers get some type of intrinsic value from having oil buried deep beneath their land? You can't eat it and for the most part relatively little damage is done during the pumping process. (as opposed to real environmental damage done by mining and harvesting wood) The problem is not so much as America's "unquenchable thirst" for oil but rather the misuse and waste (not to mention outright theft) of the money the oil producers earn selling their oil to the West. Maybe, instead of squandering the proceeds on non-productive endeavors the money should be put into infrastructure, education, public health, etc.

    If you are p*ssed off at the US and the West now, just wait until you run out of oil. If you need an example of how much attention you'll attract from the U.S. then look at countries like Zambia and Botswana. BTW, before you respond with the US hegemony in the region is why we don't effectively use the money response, consider the situation in traditional anti-US countries like Libya and explain how they utilized their oil profits any more effectively than Saudi Arabia or the Gulf states.
     
  5. adamsmith

    adamsmith member

    What a pity we can't just trade with each other, and not worry about each other's skin colour, domicile or religious reading material!
     
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I am guilty of the exact kind of bumpersticker attitude I condemn in others. The Muslim world has sworn for years through its governments, organizations, and even charities to kill every last Jew.

    But that really is no excuse for abandoning critical thought.
     
  7. Opalese

    Opalese New Member

    This is becoming a very sad discussion indeed. Gentlemen, control yourselves. I am a woman here and I am not ranting and raving. I am very, very offended to have someone desecrate my Holy Quran, and I don't personally know anyone who would be willing to desecrate a Holy Book from any religion.

    I don't think getting worked up about it is going to help. Abdullah, you have every reason to be upset, but let's take things slowly.
    Politics is very dirty. Dirtier than we can fathom. There will always be ulterior motives and games for power and control. Don't be misled into thinking there are any noble politicians out there.

    Let us think about something else: if we are to juxtapose the desecration of the Quran and the burning of the American flag, maybe we should be considering something else: What drives people to behave this way? It is surely some form of inner frustration. People who burn the flag express their rage and resentment at a nation that has been seen as a bully during its attempts 'liberate' the world. Certain things are played down, others definitely magnified, and the gullible among us sit back and lap it all up.

    But while burning the flag might say: 'down with the tyrant!' perhaps the message behind the desecration of the Quran is far more humiliating: 'Let your God and His Book save you now' or 'to hell with you and your violent religion' something like that.
    If anything, it means to me as a Muslim that I have to work harder to explain who I am and what the offending actions of others signify to me. I have to explain that in my religion I am expected to honour and respect all other Holy Books and that I would, as a practising Muslim who knows that I will be accountable before the Almighty for my every word and action, never dream of retaliating with similar actions.
    And I would, instead of losing my head (I might have done as a teenager, but not anymore!), calmly explain how a Muslim is supposed to behave, by quoting the very book that was descerated:

    And the servants of the Most Gracious(God)
    are those who walk the earth with humility,
    and when the ignorant (foolish) address them, they say:
    "Peace!"
    63:Furqan (The Criterion)

    So if I serve my God, I walk through life with humility, not arrogance, and if people address me with ignorance and foolish remarks, I say 'peace'. I don't kick up a fight. I don't get bitchy or cook up creative insults, humiliating replies.

    This is just one verse from the Holy Quran some of you are so willing to desecrate. How violent does that sound to you? To me, it says so much in just a few lines.

    I don't agree with terror tactics. I don't agree that planes be crashed into buildings and lives be destroyed in the process. Nor do I agree that innocent children be killed and maimed by enemy armies, or that bombs rain down on people just wanting to get on with their lives. I don't agree that a single life be lost to hunger, disease or violence, at any level.

    Yes, oil has a lot to do with things; it is part of the power struggle of a small elite. Because they don't actually give a damn about anybody else, let's call them tyrants. But, being a philosopher, let me tell you a secret: tyrants actually own nothing. They may control the fates of countless, but they cannot stop their own deaths when their time comes, so what's the use of all that power when it's time to give up the ghost?

    Because I believe that Judgement will be 100% fair, I am not worried in the least. Whether its a life, a Quran, a flag, we will stand before the Almighty and be Judged, and He will have the final say.
    In the third Millennium, I might sound a tad archaic, but I'm actually very proud of that. I get on with my life in 'peace'. I just try to get between the sheets every night with a clear conscience, a pure heart, and the knowledge that I did my best in my little world for another day.

    Peace,

    Opal

    Master of Letters, Creative Writing CQU (Oct 2005)
     

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