Deacrace in NYC, funeral for Hezbollah terror leader

That made zero sense to me.

I know USA voted the same way. That’s why I said “Trump and Israel are horrible and evil.” They voted for Putin over Ukraine. I thought it was because of Trump. You corrected me and said Israel doesn’t like Ukraine generally. They must really like Putin better.

 

Bill, Its political.
Countries vote the way they need, it's not always an indication that there is no support or cooperation.
Israel has good strategic relations with Azerbaijan for example even when Azerbaijan votes not in favor of Israel in UN.

Ukraine voted with Russia, N. Korea, Iran against Israel 75% of the time.

According to your standard Ukraine is evil.

Ukraine's voting record on United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolutions concerning Israel indicates a significant tendency to vote against Israel. According to data from UN Watch, between 2015 and January 2025, Ukraine voted against Israel in approximately 75% of such resolutions, abstained in about 25%, and did not vote in favor of Israel in any instance.

 

I suspect that your statistical assertion about 75% of the votes is misleading BS.

Again I stated that the Israeli vote was political because Trump convinced them to vote for Putin against Ukraine. You said no that they didn't need any persuading because they don't like Ukraine and so must like Putin better is why they voted that way. You then posted a TimesofIsrael.com article link that supported your assertion. I appreciate you posting the link but admit that I didn't read it. Those are the only two choices that make sense to me. Which is it?

 

Bill, you are wrong again:

Noting misleading, it's an average for all anti-Israel resolutions, votes in UN. Records are available.
You call it BS because it backfired on your anti-Israel post.

Ukraine's voting record on United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) resolutions concerning Israel indicates a significant tendency to vote against Israel. According to data from UN Watch, between 2015 and January 2025, Ukraine voted against Israel in approximately 75% of such resolutions, abstained in about 25%, and did not vote in favor of Israel in any instance.

unwatch.org


However, other reports suggest a higher percentage of opposition. In July 2023, Israel's ambassador to Ukraine, Michael Brodsky, stated that Ukraine supported anti-Israel resolutions at the UN "in 90% of cases."

timesofisrael.com


The discrepancy between these figures may result from differences in the time frames analyzed, the specific resolutions considered, or the sources' methodologies. Nonetheless, it's evident that Ukraine frequently votes in opposition to Israel in UNGA resolutions.

 

I was already convinced that Israel hates Ukraine and apparently wants Putin to finish off Ukraine because of that hate, at least that's what their UN vote seems to indicate. I disagree with Israel's view. I think all countries that voted that way are horrible and evil. Although in the USA's case most people, even Republicans, I believe, disagree with Trump's vote in the UN on this subject. Therefore, like I said multiple times, "Trump and Israel are horrible and evil." It's sad to me that I have been wrong about Israel all these years. Although, Israel could just be in the same situation as the USA? Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that "Trump and Netanyahu are horrible and evil."? Although you have made a very strong argument that Israel hates Ukraine and not just Netanyahu that hates Ukraine.

 

This is total BS.
Is this Bill or someone took over your account?
You and Stan like to put words in to my mouth.
I said that despite the vote in UN, the collaboration between countries got better.
And my support of Ukraine is known.
I have no effect whatsoever on what Pr. Trump or PM Netanyahu do.

 

We weren't talking about you?? Just what you said. To recap,

Bill Huffman said, "Trump got Israel to vote for Putin against Ukraine in the United Nations."

Lerner replied, "Bil,
No persuading was needed.
Did you know:
Times of Israel:

Ukraine supports anti-Israel resolutions at the United Nations “in 90% of cases,” Israel’s ambassador to Kyiv said over the weekend.

In an interview published Saturday by the online Ukrainian outlet Mirror of the Week, Ambassador Michael Brodsky called Ukraine’s stance “an abnormal situation, especially given the fact that Ukraine quite often turns to Israel with various requests.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraines-backing-of-90-of-un-anti-israel-votes-could-hurt-support-israeli-envoy/"

Israel did not need any persuading. You then made many posts trying to justify the hate that Israel had against Ukraine. Now there have been a few phrases of yours that supports the conclusion that maybe it was really just Netanyahu that dislikes Ukraine. But maybe that is just me grasping at straws?

 

I didn't try to justify, I was presenting facts. I'm not of any authority to pass judgments.
My opinion that if Ukraine had no problem to vote 75% of the time against Israel siding with N. Korea, Iran, Russia why is it surprising that Israel voted against Ukraine?

To put it in perspective:
Israel has generally voted in favor of resolutions that express support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, particularly in cases where the resolutions condemn Russia's actions in Ukraine.
There have been instances where Israel has abstained rather than voted against, notably when the language of the resolution was seen as overly critical of Russia or did not align with Israel's foreign policy interests in the region.
rough estimate of how Israel has voted on UN resolutions related to Ukraine, based on its recent voting patterns:

• For: ~30%
• Abstained: ~60%
• Against: ~10%

 

Oh so you seem to be saying that the only time Israel voted against Ukraine and for Russia was this last time? This last time is also the only time USA voted the same. That means to me that it was correct to say then that "Trump got Israel to vote for Putin against Ukraine in the United Nations."

I note that statement could be true even if Trump never mentioned it to anyone. Netanyahu probably had them vote that way to try to please Trump. Which would be smart politically. I still think Netanyahu is horrible and evil but that’s for other reasons.

I feel much better because I really didn’t like the idea that Israel would vote for Russia against Ukraine out of spite or hate. That would be horrible and evil.

Although I don’t know what I said in this thread that made you think that I was attacking you personally?

 

I think that Israel generally aligns closely with the United States in UN votes, Israel votes with the USA no mater who the President in the USA is at the time.
But there are exceptions, like under Presidents Barack Obama, there were more points of divergence, particularly over issues like the Iran nuclear deal and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The U.S. also occasionally abstains or votes against resolutions that Israel disagrees with—like in the case of UN Security Council Resolution 2334 in 2016, when the Obama administration abstained, allowing a resolution condemning Israeli settlement activity to pass.

 

IMHO, condemning Israeli settlements on Palestinian land is completely justified. That is Palestinian land and Israeli settlements there are bad. It's not their land and it makes an eventual peaceful solution more difficult. This is the typical move of the radical far-right religious zealots.

 

Depends on who you ask, the issue is deeply tied to a complex historical and legal context. From one perspective
the situation is not one-sided. Some settlements have been established on land that was not previously owned by Palestinians.
Israeli settlers argue that they have a right to live in the West Bank, citing historical and religious claims to the land. In fact, the area has deep historical significance for Jews, and consider it part of Jewish ancestral homeland.

Moreover, the status of the West Bank is complex. Before the Six-Day War in 1967, the territory was controlled by Jordan, and Jordan has not made a claim to it since losing control. The Palestinian Authority seeks it as part of a future Palestinian state, but not all Palestinians or Arab nations agree on how the land should be divided, if divided at all, some want to take it all and eliminate Israel.

It’s important to recognize that this is an ongoing dispute with no easy solution, and perspectives on the matter are shaped by political, religious, and historical factors. Engaging in these discussions requires understanding the many layers of history, law, and human experience involved.

 

Sorry Biblical claims to land are not legally relevant. If it were I could just start up my own religion and claim your house as my property. It would be legally very stupid and total chaos to accept religious claims such as that.

It makes no sense to me. I don't understand why you just say illogical things like that sometimes. Another example, is this statement.

You were absolutely justifying Israel's vote when you said, "Bil,
No persuading was needed.
Did you know: ..."

That was EXACTLY what you were doing. You were justifying Israel's vote. It's just obvious on the very face of it that you were justifying Israel's vote.

You sometimes seem to just say things and wish it was true when it is not?

 

My response was not intended as justification but rather as an explanation, supported by additional information to provide context. If it was perceived as justification, I understand that perspective.
However, I often encounter what seems like hypocrisy in these discussions. Israel’s vote is criticized when it aligns with countries like Russia or North Korea, but when Ukraine votes similarly to those countries against Israel, it's rarely mentioned. Why is it that Israel's actions are singled out, but similar actions from other countries are overlooked?

 

Israel is prone to taking land from Palestinians to settle a kibbutz on. That is bad and should not be overlooked.

 

No land should be taken from people, and they should have the right to keep their homes, businesses, and fields. In times of war, while territorial boundaries may shift between liberators and occupiers, villages and cities should remain the rightful property of the people who live there. In this case, Jordan, the losing side in the 1967 war, has not demanded the return of the land, which suggests a recognition of the complexities of the situation.
Israel has the right to build settlements within its borders, as long as they do not encroach on the land of its neighbors. Tensions often arise when these settlements are seen as threatening to the land or security of others. The real issues emerge when Palestinians engage in violent acts, such as terrorism, and setlers respond, which complicates peace efforts and leads to conflict.
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was a period of relative peace as both sides showed good will. Unfortunately, the situation escalated due to the wars and ongoing conflicts that followed. There was a chance for a resolution, especially in 2008 when Mahmoud Abbas indicated willingness to accept a partition, but the Palestinian Authority sought more than what was on the table, which made a lasting agreement difficult.
Ultimately, the situation is a tragic result of a complex history, and peace remains elusive due to both sides’ competing interests and deep-rooted grievances.

 

For reference, this was offered in 2008.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/olmert-reveals-for-first-time-map-of-palestinian-state-he-offered-abbas/